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Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 05:47

So I have been pouring over the rules and reading threads here and on BGG. Hoping to play this coming weekend and have as much down as possible. Here are some questions and clarifications I have. Not to many I think. 🙂


1. Other than for aesthetic reasons does the facing of an infantry unit matter?


2. Page 6, first column, movement of vehicles and large creatures.

Here it talks about moving a vehicle or a large creature occupying two spaces and being able to move backwards. Can a large creature who occupies four spaces move backwards? I don't see anything about them being able to move backwards in the next column.


3. Page 6, second column, movement of large creatures occupying four spaces.

In the diagram at the top of the column the monster turns 90 degrees at move 2. Why? Would it not end up in the same position if it kept its facing toward the top of the page?


4. Page 8, first column, line of sight.

In the diagram at the middle of the page if the vehicle in the bottom left corner were to the left one square so only the front of the vehicle was on the tile, would the infantry unit in the top middle of the tile have LoS to it? In other words does the hedgerow block LoS at the interspace?


5. Page 8, second column, shot resolution.

Can you declare suppressive fire with any firing action or must the weapon have the special ability "Suppressive Fire" to do so?


6. Page 13, first column, if two buildings are diagonally adjacent.

It states vehicles can pass or stop between them. Can two space creatures do the same?


Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 06:12

7. Page 15, second column, life points.

Just making sure, but the Star Spawn has two life points so it takes a hit, one is removed, takes a second hit and it is removed, takes a third hit and it is flipped.

On the wounded side it would then take a hit and remove a life point and another hit would remove it. Is that correct?


8. Page 17, first column, assault (long range).

With these you do not need to be able to enter your the assaulted units square correct. You just need to end your assault adjacent (long range 1) or two squares away (long range 2). Is that correct?


9. Page 17, first column, assault (brutal & on the move).

Diagram at top of page 17 second column.

It says attacks are resolved in the order of the attacker. If the attacker were to choose to do the assault at move 4 (top right corner) first, if it were to lose it would ends its activation not make the attacks at move 1 and 2 and end in the spaces in front of that fire team. Is that correct?


10. Page 18, first column, machine gunner.

In the example diagram could the machine gunner also declare suppressive fire, sine it has that special ability as well and get +2, +2 +4 on the rolls?


11. Page 18, first column, medic.

Read about it, still unsure.

First, it says in order to activate it you must flip the unit over during movement. Can this movement be during the Supply Phase?

Second, place marker on any unit that has just taken a hit.

Third, that unit ignores the hit it just took, so it is not flipped? The aid marker and a suppressed marker go on the unit. If it is hit again is it flipped? What if the unit has life points?

Fourth, to remove it the medic must be adjacent to the unit with the aid marker, must not have activated and must be showing it active side. This can be done during the Activation or Supply Phase.

Does transferring the aid marker require these three things to be true or can it be done at any time?


12. Page 18, second column, scout.

If possible could a scout deploy in an enemies deployment zone?


13. Ways to gain suppression include:

-Suppressing Fire

-Infantry or Large Creatures in difficult, swamp, terrain (which cannot be removed while in it)

-Casting a spell

-Some spell effects

-Offensive Grenades

-Toxic Cloud

-Medic, Aid marker

-Terrifying


Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 07:00

Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 05:47

1. Other than for aesthetic reasons does the facing of an infantry unit matter?


The facing does not matter unless the unit has a firing arc.


2. Page 6, first column, movement of vehicles and large creatures.

Here it talks about moving a vehicle or a large creature occupying two spaces and being able to move backwards. Can a large creature who occupies four spaces move backwards? I don't see anything about them being able to move backwards in the next column.


Edit to correct a mistake. I was obviously overtired!

On p. 6 just below the picture of the Star Spawn moving, it states, "in addition to advancing (or retreating) by one space". Thus a Large Creature can move backwards. Apparently the sentence "If you want to move backward, then count the number of spaces from the back of the vehicle" should have said "vehicle or creature".


Large creatures can also spin 90 degrees for 1 movement point, so they can turn 180 degrees with 2 points.


3. Page 6, second column, movement of large creatures occupying four spaces.

In the diagram at the top of the column the monster turns 90 degrees at move 2. Why? Would it not end up in the same position if it kept its facing toward the top of the page?


Because (as stated in the text) it is an example of the creature turning 90 degrees as part of a move. That graphic is being used to illustrate several different aspects of Large Creature movement.


4. Page 8, first column, line of sight.

In the diagram at the middle of the page if the vehicle in the bottom left corner were to the left one square so only the front of the vehicle was on the tile, would the infantry unit in the top middle of the tile have LoS to it? In other words does the hedgerow block LoS at the interspace?


Well, first of all, the illustration just below that shows that the hedgerow would block LoS to the vehicle, since you must aim for the center of one of the vehicles squares. But that is apparently not what you were asking.


If you can draw your LoS between the two units without crossing the indicated area that blocks LoS (it has a border) then you can shoot at your target. So if you are at exactly 45 degrees when going through an Interspace, the bocage does not block LoS.


5. Page 8, second column, shot resolution.

Can you declare suppressive fire with any firing action or must the weapon have the special ability "Suppressive Fire" to do so?


Why would there be a Suppressive Fire special ability if anyone could do it? Much the same way that the section on Buildings talks about throwing in a grenade, but your units only get to throw a grenade if you bought the equipment for them to use.


[Disregard this answer, it was based on an incorrect reading of the question.


6. Page 13, first column, if two buildings are diagonally adjacent.

It states vehicles can pass or stop between them. Can two space creatures do the same?


I respect your careful reading of the rules, but I think you are being a little to narrow in your interpretation here. Considering infantry can pass through an even narrower space when the buildings are "adjacent" (as shown in the diagram previous to the one you reference), why would they not? Is "Diagonally adjacent" not "adjacent"?


Infantry can pass between any adjacent buildings, but vehicles can only pass between the buildings if they are diagonally adjacent.]


That is all I have time for right now.


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Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 07:43

Thanks for the answers so far. I've got no problems with any of your answers except #6.


To #6

I'm not asking about infantry, I know they can move through diagonally adjacent buildings. I'm asking if two square monsters can? I'm guessing yes they​ operate the same way as a vehicle in this case but it does not say so.


Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 19:10

Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 07:43

Thanks for the answers so far. I've got no problems with any of your answers except #6.


To #6

I'm not asking about infantry, I know they can move through diagonally adjacent buildings. I'm asking if two square monsters can? I'm guessing yes they​ operate the same way as a vehicle in this case but it does not say so.


Err… Yep. Sorry about that. It was late and I managed to misread that one.


6. Page 13, first column, if two buildings are diagonally adjacent.

It states vehicles can pass or stop between them. Can two space creatures do the same?


Your idea of treating the creatures like a vehicle is not a bad one, but I will try to get clarification from DPG on that question.


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Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 19:28

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [14/06/2017] à 07:00

I respect your careful reading of the rules…


I have been teaching middle school (ages 10-15) for 20 years. One thing I have noticed is that without clear, precise and concise directions for any design project I give them they will tend to mess something up.


I also play test for Plaid Hat Games (Summoner Wars, Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn, Caravan-now Century: Spice Road and others) and know that the end user of a rule book is always going to have questions.


The more questions are asked the better the rules will turn out. The better the rules turn out the more enjoyable the game.


I noticed a review on BGG that you responded to from a guy who had decades of game experience and though the rules for SoN were to difficult and to long. I cannot fathom that, take out all the pictures and the actual rules might be what 6-8 pages long. Most are pretty easy to understand and intuitive, that is how a rule book should be.


I'm really looking forward to playing and am extremely hyped for HoB. It has one of the most exciting histories and fluff of any game out there, probably because it has been around for close to 30-40 years now. Hoping that these types of rules questions will all be cleared up by then, as poorly written rules can kill a game faster than anything else.


Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 22:00

Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 06:12

7. Page 15, second column, life points.

Just making sure, but the Star Spawn has two life points so it takes a hit, one is removed, takes a second hit and it is removed, takes a third hit and it is flipped.

On the wounded side it would then take a hit and remove a life point and another hit would remove it. Is that correct?


That would be my reading as well. I have asked for clarification just to be sure, but that seems correct to me.


Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 06:128. Page 17, first column, assault (long range).

With these you do not need to be able to enter [the] assaulted unit's square, correct? You just need to end your assault adjacent (long range 1) or two squares away (long range 2). Is that correct?


The actual phrasing would be "are not allowed to enter the assaulted unit's square", but yes.


Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 06:129. Page 17, first column, assault (brutal & on the move).

Diagram at top of page 17 second column.

It says attacks are resolved in the order of the attacker. If the attacker were to choose to do the assault at move 4 (top right corner) first, if it were to lose it would ends its activation not make the attacks at move 1 and 2 and end in the spaces in front of that fire team. Is that correct?


That is not entirely correct. After each unit of movement, you resolve any or all attacks in the order you choose, but then you proceed with movement. From that chart, the unit next to the Spawn after Move 1 has to have been assaulted after the first unit of movement, because after that it would be out of range.


The sequence was as follows:

Move 1 – Assault the left-most Fire Team with Long Range Assault + Brutal Assault+Assault on the Move. All 3 are required in order to attack that unit.

At that time the player apparently choose not to Assault the middle Fire Team, even though it would have been in range just as the left-most Fire team was in range.

Apparently it won the Assault, so it can continue to move 😉

Move 2 – Assault the middle Fire Team with Brutal Assault + Assault on the Move. For purposes of this diagram, it must have won the assault at that point so it could still continue to move.

Move 4 – Assault on the right-most Fire Team.


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Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 22:03

I corrected my response about Large Creatures moving. While going through the Assault question I realized I had missed the statement that they can move backwards.


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Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 22:50

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [14/06/2017] à 22:00


Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 06:129. Page 17, first column, assault (brutal & on the move).

Diagram at top of page 17 second column.

It says attacks are resolved in the order of the attacker. If the attacker were to choose to do the assault at move 4 (top right corner) first, if it were to lose it would ends its activation not make the attacks at move 1 and 2 and end in the spaces in front of that fire team. Is that correct?


That is not entirely correct. After each unit of movement, you resolve any or all attacks in the order you choose, but then you proceed with movement. From that chart, the unit next to the Spawn after Move 1 has to have been assaulted after the first unit of movement, because after that it would be out of range.


The sequence was as follows:

Move 1 – Assault the left-most Fire Team with Long Range Assault + Brutal Assault+Assault on the Move. All 3 are required in order to attack that unit.

At that time the player apparently choose not to Assault the middle Fire Team, even though it would have been in range just as the left-most Fire team was in range.

Apparently it won the Assault, so it can continue to move 😉

Move 2 – Assault the middle Fire Team with Brutal Assault + Assault on the Move. For purposes of this diagram, it must have won the assault at that point so it could still continue to move.

Move 4 – Assault on the right-most Fire Team.



That makes much more sense and is intuitively how I thought the rule should read, it just was not coming across that way as worded.


Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 22:56

Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 06:12

10. Page 18, first column, machine gunner.

In the example diagram could the machine gunner also declare suppressive fire, [since] it has that special ability as well and get +2, +2 +4 on the rolls?


Yes. You might find some of the more mundane mechanics answered in the HoN section of the forum. Things like Machine Guns or vehicles would be covered there. Things like Large Creatures, Brutal Assault, or Terror are not 🙂


Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 06:12

11. Page 18, first column, medic.

Read about it, still unsure.

First, it says in order to activate it you must flip the unit over during movement. Can this movement be during the Supply Phase?

Second, place marker on any unit that has just taken a hit.

Third, that unit ignores the hit it just took, so it is not flipped? The aid marker and a suppressed marker go on the unit. If it is hit again is it flipped? What if the unit has life points?

Fourth, to remove it the medic must be adjacent to the unit with the aid marker, must not have activated and must be showing it active side. This can be done during the Activation or Supply Phase.

Does transferring the aid marker require these three things to be true or can it be done at any time?


The first paragraph of all such "circular arrows" abilities is a general statement of how the state is changed.

Any movement phase can be used to activate a symbol with the "circular arrows" symbol incorporated in it. In the compendium this will be defined as a "Change of State" ability. It has two states and the naming will seem a bit counter-intuitive but is actually correct.


Look at Ambush to get an idea. When the unit is revealed (Ambush is inactive), the symbol shows the Ambush symbol and the blue arrows. That is the "Inactive" side, because the Ambush is not active, but you can flip the unit to activate the Ambush ability.

When you flip the Ambush unit over, the symbol now has a blue line through it, that means you flip the unit to deactivate the power. That is the "Active" side.


See, told you it is a bit counter-intuitive 😉 It is made worse by the fact that the symbols used in the SoN rules are not in a logical place for the part of the power discussed.


In the case of the Medic, he must be on his Active side (blue line through the red cross symbol) to be able to prevent a wound. If Active, the Medic placed his single Aid marker on the unit that would have taken a wound and that wound is temporarily avoided. You do not flip the Medic at this time. If a different unit gets wounded you can move the marker to the new unit and the old unit will suffer the wound that was hanging over it like the Sword of Damocles 😉


The actual resolution of the Aid is when the Medic is adjacent and capable of moving (either is acting in the Activation Phase or during the Supply Phase movement). At that point the conditions listed on the ability must be met. The Medic must be active and adjacent, the Medic must be capable of acting, and the Medic must be on their "Active" side. At that point the wound on the other unit is permanently cancelled, the Aid token is removed, and the Medic is flipped to their Inactive side. At the end of that turns Supply Phase, the unit can lose their Suppressed marker as usual.


Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 06:1212. Page 18, second column, scout.

If possible could a scout deploy in an [enemy's] deployment zone?


There is no rule against that in general, although there might be a limitation imposed by any given scenario. The times when deployment zones are that close is pretty rare (none leap to mind as I write this). If being in the deployment zone is an objective of the scenario, then the rule regarding not being in the area of an objective would apply 😉


Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 06:12

13. Ways to gain suppression include:

-Suppressing Fire

-Infantry or Large Creatures in difficult, swamp, terrain (which cannot be removed while in it)

-Casting a spell

-Some spell effects

-Offensive Grenades

-Toxic Cloud

-Medic, Aid marker

-Terrifying


Aid marker also applies as long as the Aid marker is on the unit.

Casting a Spell can include some Action Card spells.

You left out a Heavy Vehicle taking damage to location 3-4.

You also left out the Aquatic Trap, Bogged Down, Fall Back, Hit the Dirt, In Your Face!, It Bounced Right Off, Thank the Helmet, and Thank the Scales action cards.


There are other ways to get a Suppressed marker that come from different sources. They are detailed in the rules and mechanics for those source. Creating a finite list for a Heroes System Tactical Scale game is never a good idea 😉


Doing a quick scan through the Heroes of Normandie rulebook, here is a sample list of additional sources:

– Units assaulted outside of their Firing Arc

– Units being transported by a vehicle that is destroyed.

– Units inside a building that is destroyed.

– Triggerhappy units

– Frightening Shot ability

– Sniper ability

Don't Stop action card


All of these could well enter the SoN game system at any point, since they are all "mundane" sources. Well, all of them but the Action Card perhaps.


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Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 22:58

Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 19:28

I also play test for Plaid Hat Games (Summoner Wars, Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn, Caravan-now Century: Spice Road and others) and know that the end user of a rule book is always going to have questions.


I can tell that from the fact that you include page and even column references. I cannot tell you how much easier that makes my life while trying to answer questions. I really wish more people could adopt that behavior 😉


Thanks again!


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Questions Posted on [14/06/2017] à 23:05

Thank you for your replies. It is much appreciated. Looking forward to getting it on the table soon.


Questions Posted on [15/06/2017] à 06:44

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [14/06/2017] à 22:56

There is no rule against that in general, although there might be a limitation imposed by any given scenario. The times when deployment zones are that close is pretty rare (none leap to mind as I write this). If being in the deployment zone is an objective of the scenario, then the rule regarding not being in the area of an objective would apply 😉


First scenario in the Lost Battalion campaign. 😉


Questions Posted on [15/06/2017] à 08:16

Also, you get suppressed token:


– paradropping during the action phase (supply phase paradrops do not get this)

– paradropping on a non-clear terrain

– paradropping on top of another unit, both get suppressed token and the paradropping unit must be placed on adjanced square.


SoN rules do not have paratroopers, but in case one wants to buy Pegasus bridge or St.M-Eglise and use those in SoN.


I learned this the hard way: my Polish paratroopers dropped on a cover terrain, got suppressed and after seeing mythos manifestations, decided to commit suicide rather than fight…


So, it's not a good idea to do paradrops against mythos units…


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Questions Posted on [15/06/2017] à 17:31

Quote from Colhammer on [15/06/2017] à 08:16

So, it's not a good idea to do paradrops against mythos units…


Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon 😉


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Questions Posted on [22/06/2017] à 21:52

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [14/06/2017] à 22:00


Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 06:12

7. Page 15, second column, life points.

Just making sure, but the Star Spawn has two life points so it takes a hit, one is removed, takes a second hit and it is removed, takes a third hit and it is flipped.

On the wounded side it would then take a hit and remove a life point and another hit would remove it. Is that correct?


That would be my reading as well. I have asked for clarification just to be sure, but that seems correct to me.


Got an official answer back. You were correct. It makes sense from the rules mechanics but nice to know you had the intent of the rules correct 🙂


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Questions Posted on [22/06/2017] à 21:56

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [14/06/2017] à 19:10


Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [14/06/2017] à 07:43

Thanks for the answers so far. I've got no problems with any of your answers except #6.


To #6

I'm not asking about infantry, I know they can move through diagonally adjacent buildings. I'm asking if two square monsters can? I'm guessing yes they​ operate the same way as a vehicle in this case but it does not say so.


Err… Yep. Sorry about that. It was late and I managed to misread that one.


6. Page 13, first column, if two buildings are diagonally adjacent.

It states vehicles can pass or stop between them. Can two space creatures do the same?


Your idea of treating the creatures like a vehicle is not a bad one, but I will try to get clarification from DPG on that question.


Got clarification from DPG.


Large Creatures cannot move between buildings that are diagonally adjacent. That is restricted to vehicles, apparently.


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Questions Posted on [23/06/2017] à 02:45

Interesting. Any explanation as to why?


Thanks!


Questions Posted on [23/06/2017] à 04:03

Quote from file_13_2002@yahoo.com on [23/06/2017] à 02:45

Interesting. Any explanation as to why?


Thanks!


Without a quote it is hard to say which of my last two posts this is referencing…

I will assume you meant the one related to Large Creatures, since it is the most likely to draw such a response.


The answer is going to be "because that is how the rules are written." The rules allow vehicles to move between, but not Large Creatures.


I could speculate that since Large creatures come in a variety of sizes of which only a subset are within the size of a vehicle it was to keep the rules simple. But that is purely speculation on my part. I don't really have an answer.


If you were asking about Life Spawn points, then again I will fall back on "because that is how the rules are written". In this case, it is more logical that it works that way, I think.


Edit to add: You are always free to house rule it for vehicle sized Large Creatures if you want of course.


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Questions Posted on [23/06/2017] à 04:38

Thanks. It was to the large creature one.


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