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Battle Reports
Battle Reports Posted on [27/04/2019] à 12:45

I have posted a couple of battle report videos to YouTube. So far I have done scenario's 2 and 3, but hopefully more to come soon. These are my first attempts at a battle report, so hopefully they'll improve with practice. If you spot any rules issues or have any feedback let me know.


Scenario 2:

https://youtu.be/ZtntNw2lWXI


Scenario 3:

https://youtu.be/hKZsTGfSZkQ


Battle Reports Posted on [27/04/2019] à 17:54

Looks cool! I’ll watch them for sure!


☠Heroes System Belgium Represent ☠

Battle Reports Posted on [28/04/2019] à 02:22

Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. It is really good to see some fan support for this game. I watched them and enjoyed them a lot. It is interesting to see how people approach the situation presented in the game.


Some rules questions for you-


I am not sure the zone of control rules are followed consistently throughout the games.


In scenario 2 the marines are forced to bail out but killed because of zone of control. Yet the one unit exerting the control has a suppressed marker on it and it seems that the marines could have safely escaped with one of the occupants.


In scenario 3 Brother Prabian is defeated in an assault but is unable to retreat. In fact it looks like he did not retreat at all. Perhaps he should have been killed?


With the hand flamer it seems you were able to suppress and damage a unit. Is this correct? I assumed that suppression or damage was the result of an attack. It is interesting that flamers can do both.


Please keep up the good work! I look forward to more.


Battle Reports Posted on [28/04/2019] à 04:28

Thank you so much for making these! I always enjoy watching battle reports to get me excited to game 😀


Robert Campbell

Battle Reports Posted on [28/04/2019] à 23:24

Quote from kenofyork on [28/04/2019] à 02:22

In scenario 2 the marines are forced to bail out but killed because of zone of control. Yet the one unit exerting the control has a suppressed marker on it and it seems that the marines could have safely escaped with one of the occupants.


Correct – Suppressed units do not have a ZoC. There is even a "pull out" reminding you of the fact on p. 7 😉


Now to a personal observation of my own.

On Turn 3 of Scenario 3, the Tactical squad which was in the ZoC of the Boss Mob (and behind the Sgt.), crossed diagonally between the two (Sgt and Boss) in order to assault the Suppressed and wounded Nobz guarding the objective. They could not have done that, because that moved them within the ZoC of the Boss Mob.


The ZoC rules have an Exception that states You can move through an enemies ZoC to enter the square occupied by an opponent, but that is only that last (target) square, not the squares you moved through to get there 🙂


So the exception does not cover the move within the ZoC of the Boss. If the Boss had been Suppressed it would have been fine, but he was not.


You got the Assault on that same tactical unit otherwise mechanically correct — they had nowhere to retreat and so where destroyed.


Quote from kenofyork on [28/04/2019] à 02:22

In scenario 3 Brother Prabian is defeated in an assault but is unable to retreat. In fact, it looks like he did not retreat at all. Perhaps he should have been killed?


When Br. Prabian lost the Assault, he should have been forced to retreat. With Ork units in front and behind him, he had nowhere to retreat and should have been Destroyed.


On the subject of Brother Prabian, his assault from the Barricade would also have not been possible, because he was already in the ZoC of the units both above and below him, so he could not have moved left to get off the Barricade. Of course, that would require him to still be alive to perform the movement in the first place 😈


Without Br. Prabian, using the Rhino's heavy bolter might have been a good idea…


Quote from kenofyork on [28/04/2019] à 02:22

With the hand flamer it seems you were able to suppress and damage a unit. Is this correct? I assumed that suppression or damage was the result of an attack. It is interesting that flamers can do both.


See the rules on Flamers (p. 15). Any unit (except the firing unit) touched by a Flamer receives a Suppressed marker regardless of whether they are hit by the attack.


Quote from kenofyork on [28/04/2019] à 02:22

Please keep up the good work! I look forward to more.


Agreed 🙂


Thanks to the OP for posting the videos.


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Battle Reports Posted on [29/04/2019] à 00:05

Thanks for the feedback guys and the support. I'm definitely going to keep working through the scenarios and post videos as I go – hopefully at least one a week, sometimes more frequently now I know how to edit the clips together, etc.


In terms of rules – thanks for spotting my mistakes – that'll help me to be better in future videos, although playing the game and videoing seems to mean I have more to think about and forget some rules, but hopefully it'll get less frequent. I'm still fairly new to this game.


There were a couple of places that Nostradunwhich noted that units moved within ZoC's of other units while assaulting – both the Tactical squad and Prabian. I think this is my different reading of the rules, so I am happy to be wrong and adjust my understanding. The rules state this on pg17:


"Enemy ZoCs do not prevent a Unit from moving into a square occupied by an enemy Unit if this movement leads to an Assault."


and the EXCEPTION on page 7:


"A Unit can try to move through an enemy ZoC to enter the square occupied by an opponent, but only if it has the Assault Special Ability (See "Assault" p. 17)."


The way I had played these rules is that if a unit is running forward to engage another in assault then any surrounding ZoCs don't matter, but after what Nostradunwhich said I think it probably means just the final step of the assault, and doesn't include any any preceding steps (which is how I had interpreted the 'leads to' part), and so p17 might be better worded as this?


"Enemy ZoCs do not prevent a Unit from making its final move into the square occupied by an enemy Unit if this movement ends with an Assault."


Anyway, regardless, I'll make sure not to move units within ZoCs when making assaults in future reports 🙂


Thanks


Battle Reports Posted on [29/04/2019] à 03:45

Quote from geetee123 on [29/04/2019] à 00:05

There were a couple of places that Nostradunwhich noted that units moved within ZoC's of other units while assaulting – both the Tactical squad and Prabian. I think this is my different reading of the rules, so I am happy to be wrong and adjust my understanding. The rules state this on pg17:


"Enemy ZoCs do not prevent a Unit from moving into a square occupied by an enemy Unit if this movement leads to an Assault."


and the EXCEPTION on page 7:


"A Unit can try to move through an enemy ZoC to enter the square occupied by an opponent, but only if it has the Assault Special Ability (See "Assault" p. 17)."


I understand the confusion, which was why I tried to point out the mechanics a bit more clearly and highlight the spirit of the rule.


Another thing that can help clarify it a bit is to realize that the Movement rules (and the ZoC restrictions) are the rules on p. 7. There the exception to ZoC is stated as being only to ENTER the square occupied by an opponent.


The language regarding Assaults+ZoC is clarified a bit more in the Heroes of Stalingrad rules, where it more clearly spells out that the Assault happens in the last space of the movement. It also more clearly states that ZoC is only ignored for that last square as well.


There are some mechanical differences between HoBR and HoS, but some language has been improved and most of the core mechanics remain the same between both systems, so they can help clarify some items.


Such as using the term "movement within a ZoC" instead of "movement through a ZoC". People thought they could not enter and then leave a ZoC because the restriction was that a unit could not move "through" a ZoC when it really meant "within" — from one square to another in the same ZoC.


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Battle Reports Posted on [29/04/2019] à 04:00

That's all good. I have been looking through the HoS rules a bit for that reason, but that ZoC subtlety is something I must have overlooked – thinking I already understood it. I think I'm now on my 3rd understanding of ZoC and all its nuances, so hopefully this time I have it all sussed :).


I might do a video about ZoC and how it works with movement and assault. Also how it is affected by units being suppressed and ZoC concerning debarking transports vs being forced out when the transport is destroyed, etc. I think that if it has taken me this long to fully understand it maybe others would benefit from a quick video tutorial.


Thanks again.


Battle Reports Posted on [29/04/2019] à 07:00

That would be really helpful!


ZoC/Movement is a very important set of mechanics but by that same nature is complicated to grasp. Then there is the offset grid interaction to add yet another level of complication.


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Battle Reports Posted on [01/05/2019] à 11:55

Yes very cool initiative geetee.


I also noticed that when you units moved outside of the trenches crossing the barricades they didn't stop their movement whereas they should have.


Battle Reports Posted on [02/05/2019] à 02:20

I have posted the next battle report.


Scenario 4:

https://youtu.be/A9bwNCrFjKc


After this I will have a go at a Zone of Control (ZoC) tutorial video, then resume with scenario 5.


Battle Reports Posted on [02/05/2019] à 07:43

Nice work on Scenario #4.


I guess you are using a hand-held to film all of this? It showed a bit in the beginning when the phone was moving sort of in time with your pulse. But that is a LOT of time holding a camera, I don't think I could have done it! Overall you did a great job with the camera work, thanks for putting together another video.


I do have a few things to point out, but I still think you did a great job.


When you took the Heavy Bolter for Vorolanus' unit, it replaces one of the Tactical squads. That is what the red blocks with the up/down arrows signify.


Replacements, Core Rules p. 24

If you add this Support Option to a Recruitment Tile, you must replace the Unit(s) on the Recruitment Tile that is marked with the same icon.


The Heavy Weapon recruitment tile shows the same icon as the second Tactical Squad, so it should have replaced that unit.


Note: Even if the Plasma Team had made their Armour Save when they lost that first assault, they still would have had to retreat. The Armour Save only protects them from the Hit, not the other consequences of the loss.


I had a question when the Deff Dread apparently pushed Brother Prabian back "with his power fist"… how? It looks like a standard Assault, but usually, you show the rolls for an assault. Given that Prabian would have had a +2 bonus over the Dread, it would have been interesting to see the math on that attack.


The Machine Spirit was a great choice for the Dreadnaught.


Nice job with the Suppressed squad being unable to contest the Objective. You handled it perfectly. Might have been helpful to mention that the Marines lost the Suppressed marker which is why the objective was not captured by the Orks.


One the subject of Suppressed units not controlling an objective, the UM Dreadnaught should have been able to claim the Objective at the end of turn 4, since the Deff Dredd still had 2 Suppressed markers.


Oh, and you had to assign an Order to the Dreadnaught in Turn 6. Did you just ignore that for "story purposes" since the fight was pretty much already over?


One final note: It might have been worth mentioning to the viewers when you were describing the forces that Br. Prabian is not in the core box, but comes from the UM Army box.


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Battle Reports Posted on [02/05/2019] à 07:47

One thing I failed to notice the first time but caught when reviewing the other two scenarios to check for issues with Replacements.


In Scenario #3, you gave Vorolanus' Tactical Squad a Flamer Pistol. But the stripes did not match the recruitment tile. Br. Orad or Br. Prabian could have taken the Flamer, but Vorolanus could not.


If you had moved the Rhino to that first slot on Vorolanus and moved the Landspeeder to the Rhino's spot, then Br. Orad could have taken the Flamer Pistol. Point values would have been the same, but Orad would have had to wield the pistol.


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Battle Reports Posted on [02/05/2019] à 08:23

Thanks for the reply and the great feedback.


I guess you are using a hand-held to film all of this? It showed a bit in the beginning when the phone was moving sort of in time with your pulse. But that is a LOT of time holding a camera, I don't think I could have done it! Overall you did a great job with the camera work, thanks for putting together another video.


Yes it's all hand-held with my phone. I find it a bit annoying that my arm casts a shadow with the lighting I have in the room though, but its the best I can do for the moment.


When you took the Heavy Bolter for Vorolanus' unit, it replaces one of the Tactical squads. That is what the red blocks with the up/down arrows signify.


Yes, that's a mistake, which is annoying because I know that rule and have followed it many times – but not that time obviously. I need to make sure I properly check both armies are set up correctly.


Note: Even if the Plasma Team had made their Armour Save when they lost that first assault, they still would have had to retreat. The Armour Save only protects them from the Hit, not the other consequences of the loss.


Ah, good to know. I think I'd understood it that if the armour saves then nothing happens. So I'll make sure to push the unit back in retreat next time.


I had a question when the Deff Dread apparently pushed Brother Prabian back "with his power fist"… how? It looks like a standard Assault, but usually, you show the rolls for an assault. Given that Prabian would have had a +2 bonus over the Dread, it would have been interesting to see the math on that attack.


I'll have to go back and have a look at that.


The Machine Spirit was a great choice for the Dreadnaught.


Thanks 🙂


Nice job with the Suppressed squad being unable to contest the Objective. You handled it perfectly. Might have been helpful to mention that the Marines lost the Suppressed marker which is why the objective was not captured by the Orks.


Yes, true, missed that one in the narration.


One the subject of Suppressed units not controlling an objective, the UM Dreadnaught should have been able to claim the Objective at the end of turn 4, since the Deff Dredd still had 2 Suppressed markers.


Not sure about that. The Scenario Rules pg.4 say that for Objectives that at least one infantry unit must be adjacent to the objective to control it. So my reading of that is that vehicles cannot claim objectives, so the Dreadnaught couldn't claim it?


Oh, and you had to assign an Order to the Dreadnaught in Turn 6. Did you just ignore that for "story purposes" since the fight was pretty much already over?


I realised that after I was looking back over the film that I had not given the Dreadnaught his order token. My mistake, but as you say I don't think it affected the result.


One final note: It might have been worth mentioning to the viewers when you were describing the forces that Br. Prabian is not in the core box, but comes from the UM Army box.


Ah yes, good point. I have it all mixed together, so I guess if people are playing with just the core box then they may be confused. I'll try and point that out which are core and which are expansion next time. Maybe I could add the army lists to the YouTube comment with expansion units indicated for the existing scenarios?


Thanks again for the feedback. It can only get better with practice 🙂


Battle Reports Posted on [02/05/2019] à 08:31

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [02/05/2019] à 07:47

One thing I failed to notice the first time but caught when reviewing the other two scenarios to check for issues with Replacements.


In Scenario #3, you gave Vorolanus' Tactical Squad a Flamer Pistol. But the stripes did not match the recruitment tile. Br. Orad or Br. Prabian could have taken the Flamer, but Vorolanus could not.


If you had moved the Rhino to that first slot on Vorolanus and moved the Landspeeder to the Rhino's spot, then Br. Orad could have taken the Flamer Pistol. Point values would have been the same, but Orad would have had to wield the pistol.



That's a good spot, having just looked again at the token edges you are correct – they are pretty similar though! A slight marbling effect on the white vs plain white (with the grey).


I think I'll definitely check my armies with the army manager (http://www.boardgametools.fr/hon/build/hobr) like I used when I started and and not just assume I know what I'm doing now I have played a few times 🙂


Battle Reports Posted on [02/05/2019] à 09:11

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [02/05/2019] à 07:43

I had a question when the Deff Dread apparently pushed Brother Prabian back "with his power fist"… how? It looks like a standard Assault, but usually, you show the rolls for an assault. Given that Prabian would have had a +2 bonus over the Dread, it would have been interesting to see the math on that attack.


Yes, it was just a standard assault. My maths gives:


Prabian:

+0 against heavy vehicles

+3 in assault

+1 for the crater cover


Deff Dread:

+3 against infantry

+3 in assault


So 4 vs 6 and I think the Orks rolled higher as well. I seem to remember it was straightforward for the Deff Dread so I didn't keep and show the dice.


I did miss adding a suppression token for terrifying after that attack, but it would have come off in the supply phase anyway and I don't think it would have affected the game.


Did I miss anything else?


Battle Reports Posted on [02/05/2019] à 19:53

My turn to make a mistake… Forgot the Dredd was a vehicle.


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Battle Reports Posted on [02/05/2019] à 20:30

Quote from geetee123 on [02/05/2019] à 08:23


When you took the Heavy Bolter for Vorolanus' unit, it replaces one of the Tactical squads. That is what the red blocks with the up/down arrows signify.


Yes, that's a mistake, which is annoying because I know that rule and have followed it many times – but not that time obviously. I need to make sure I properly check both armies are set up correctly.


It takes enough brain power just to play HoBR. Add in video work and narration and it is no surprise you overlooked a few things.


One the subject of Suppressed units not controlling an objective, the UM Dreadnaught should have been able to claim the Objective at the end of turn 4, since the Deff Dredd still had 2 Suppressed markers.


Not sure about that. The Scenario Rules pg.4 say that for Objectives that at least one infantry unit must be adjacent to the objective to control it. So my reading of that is that vehicles cannot claim objectives, so the Dreadnaught couldn't claim it?

Grrr…


[rant]One of the things that drives me crazy is that DPG is adamant that in the normal rules, vehicles can claim objectives. Yet, in every scenario with a vehicle, they put in a rule that vehicles cannot claim objectives.


If every one of your scenarios is better balanced if vehicles cannot claim objectives, then just MAKE IT A STANDARD RULE![/rant]


*cough*


Sorry, I think I hit a nerve 😉


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Battle Reports Posted on [20/05/2019] à 07:35

I have posted my next battle report.


Scenario 5:


https://youtu.be/Hdn3fSpO8lk


Battle Reports Posted on [20/05/2019] à 21:09

Nice job again on Scenario 5!


Pro

❗ Nice job explaining various attacks and their outcomes.

❗ The Camo on the scouts sounds like a great idea. I liked the Attack Biker purchase as well.

❗ The Tank Bustas are a great choice for the Ork army. That mix should make for an epic battle. Overwatch can really help with the Ork's limited Order count.

❗ Great initial Ork deployment. I thought you did a great job with the smurfs getting them onto the field as well.


Con

❗ The Scout Snipers are not limited range when Sniping (see Suggestions). As the Snipers were eliminated during Turn 1, that is not a real problem, but I did want to bring it to your attention. If you had known how actually useful the Sniper was, you might have played it differently or used the Camo to help keep the unit alive 🙂


Suggestions

❗ I might suggest you use a still of the army choices and use overlays (like you did with the board) to highlight the unit you are discussing rather than your finger. It can be a bit hard to get a good look at the troop purchases when the camera is shifting about, at least for me (and I am not usually prone to motion sickness).


❗ I do have one other general recommendation for you, you should look through the HoN and HoBR Rules sections and check out the various explanations. It would be helpful since new players will look at videos like yours as a way to learn how to play so it would be nice if they had the correct information.


For instance, there is a post about Scout Snipers (link) specifically with regard to Limited Range. Much like Indirect or Howitzer fire, Sniper abilities are not affected by Range. In fact, I think I could safely say that Limited Range pretty much only applies to the printed Combat Values of the unit because it reflects their original armament (something like a pistol or perhaps a melee weapon).


If a character normally had a pistol, they would be limited to Range 4 by default. If that character was equipped with a Customization giving them a long-arm (say a Bolter), then they would no longer be restricted to Range 4 with that Long-arm attack. I know Customizations do not apply to the Sniper, but I am trying to point out a general game design point rather than a specific one. 🙂


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