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English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion
English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [12/05/2019] à 23:55

Hello,


I am trying to make sense of the illustration at the top left of page 12 of the rule book. Why would the instance "b" have a -2 penalty for shooting at the unit behind the wall? Since you don't count obscuring terrain occupied by the unit wouldn't they only receive a defense bonus ?


English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [13/05/2019] à 08:24

There is an Obstacle between the square in which the SM unit resides and the space between them and the Ork unit. That is why the description of that picture starts with "When an Obstacle between two squares obscured LoS…"


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English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [14/05/2019] à 02:51

I still don't quite follow – is that because the printed picture of the wall obstacle goes into the hex next to the space marines? The full square itself is not within a terrain element.


English rulebook page 12 Posted on [14/05/2019] à 12:04

Hi Jones,


I'll try and explain it.



The barricade is an obstacle between squares. Normally, you should take into account that -2 modifier when shots cross that wall. Example B shows this normal case: the Orks shoot at the Tactical Squad in the Wall, but the shot is obscured by the wall, hence the -2 for the Orks.


When a unit is adjacent to this obstacle, there's no penalty. Example A explains this. The Tactical Squad is adjacent to the Barricade, so no penalty for them. You could look at it like this: units adjacent to this barricade can peek and fire… (A) but units adjacent to this barricade that get shot, can hide behind the barricade (B).


However, a barricade has no defensive bonus. There's no shield to indicate that. A crater or rocks, for instance, give a defensive bonus so in those cases there are (yellow) shields.


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English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [14/05/2019] à 19:46

Thanks, Bart.


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English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [15/05/2019] à 03:27

Ah ok so here's where I am really confused – bottom of page 11 states "do not count the square occupied by the target" for obscuring shots.


So if you don't count the square, why is there a -2 penalty?


English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [15/05/2019] à 06:33

This obstacle is BETWEEN 2 squares, so it counts when shooting at that unit.


Some squares also have penalties and in that case you don't count the square the target is in.


So if the target is 2 squares deep in a forest hiding behind an obstacle, the first forest square penalty counts (the shot has to travel through it), the obstacle penalty counts (target is hiding behind) but the second forest square penalty does not apply because the unit is occupying that square.


English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [15/05/2019] à 15:41

Quote from hoopjones on [15/05/2019] à 03:27

Ah ok so here's where I am really confused – bottom of page 11 states "do not count the square occupied by the target" for obscuring shots.


So if you don't count the square, why is there a -2 penalty?


There is a penalty because the unit shooting is not adjacent to the obstacle, so they suffer the -2 penalty.


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English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [15/05/2019] à 20:08

Quote from Eclo on [15/05/2019] à 06:33

This obstacle is BETWEEN 2 squares, so it counts when shooting at that unit.


Some squares also have penalties and in that case you don't count the square the target is in.


So if the target is 2 squares deep in a forest hiding behind an obstacle, the first forest square penalty counts (the shot has to travel through it), the obstacle penalty counts (target is hiding behind) but the second forest square penalty does not apply because the unit is occupying that square.



If the unit being targeted was only 1 square deep in a forest (right on the edge of non-forest tile) would there be no LOS forest penalty?


English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [15/05/2019] à 20:22

That’s correct, Beans! 😎


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English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [16/05/2019] à 04:12

Ok..I really don't understand what I am missing here.


English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [16/05/2019] à 05:42

Quote from hoopjones on [16/05/2019] à 04:12

Ok..I really don't understand what I am missing here.


How many war movies have you seen with soldiers hunkered down behind a wall. When they pop up and shoot over the wall they have a clear shot at their target (the wall really does not block their shot), but the wall protects those same soldiers from return fire by covering a good portion of their body. That is the sort of thing the obstacles represent.


So for a unit adjacent to the wall, they can ignore it.

A unit not adjacent to the wall shooting at a unit beyond the wall suffers the penalty.


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English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [16/05/2019] à 09:25

Like this: 😎



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English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [19/05/2019] à 00:33

Let me clarify I understand logically why they would get an obstacle bonus for being behind a wall but the rulebook clearly states to ignore negative modifiers for both the squares occupied by both the firing unit and the target. In the picture in the rules there is no other obstacle in the way- unless you are saying the wall that reaches out of the marine hex does something different… because the wall itself is the only obstacle in the shot and again, the book says ignore the modifier occupied by the defending unit.


English rulebook page 12 Posted on [19/05/2019] à 05:51

Emphasis Added:


Quote from hoopjones on [19/05/2019] à 00:33

…the rulebook clearly states to ignore negative modifiers for both the squares occupied by both the firing unit and the target.


Quote from Nostradunwhich on [13/05/2019] à 08:24

There is an Obstacle between the square in which the SM unit resides and the space between them and the Ork unit.


The Obstacle is in the Interspace betweem the squares, so the unit is not IN the effect and thus its effect is not ignored.


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English rulebook page 12 "obstacle" illustration at top left confusion Posted on [19/05/2019] à 18:09

Thanks so much! Sorry for all the back and forth but I get it now.


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