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ambush units in buildings and grenades
ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [29/06/2019] à 08:54

Another quick question 🙂


An ambushed unit inside a building gets hit by a grenade or a flamer. The ambushed unit take a hit right? "All units inside the room are hit" is the ruling.


In doubt because the ambush makes for a invincible status when outside under a template.


ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [29/06/2019] à 10:47

I agree that the Compendium text is contradictory.


It says that concealed units can’t be hit, but it also says that all units are hit.


Now, I’m confused. 😎


☠Heroes System Belgium Represent ☠

ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [29/06/2019] à 13:22

I would rule in favour of everyone in the room being hit. Thematically, it makes no sense for a unit inside a building not to get hit by a grenade.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [29/06/2019] à 14:04

That’s a slippery slope tho. Why would it thematically make sense for a unit to dodge the same flamethrower or howitser shot when outside?


ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [29/06/2019] à 15:13

1. Outside, there are trees and obstacles and the ground Inside a room, there is limited space so the blast from a grenade gets everyone.


2. On the other hand, you can say that a concealed unit was hiding in a closet or under a table and has a cover.


Looking back at my games, we've used option 2 for concealed units.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [30/06/2019] à 07:49

Although physically a confined space with an explosive going off is a very dangerous place, and even a unit trying to hide should be affected by a hail of shrapnel.


However, reading the text I think the rule about grenades in a building used "all" in a general sense to mean the collection of units in a building, not a deliberate "ALL UNITS, EVEN THOSE UNDER SPECIAL RULES" sort of meaning. If it was supposed to violate something as specific to a unit as Ambush, it should be explicitly stated as such.


I think the special rules for Ambush would win out in this context. Even though I think personally it should not be the case, that is how I would read it.


It is sort of along the lines of this:


Most General: All units under a template are affected by the blast.

More Specific: All units in a room of a building, regardless of the template, are affected by the blast.

Most Specific: This unit is not affected by grenade or howitzer/indirect fire attacks while in Ambush mode.


Hopefully, that explains my reasoning?


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ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [30/06/2019] à 14:44

Quote from slyfox on [29/06/2019] à 13:22

I would rule in favour of everyone in the room being hit. Thematically, it makes no sense for a unit inside a building not to get hit by a grenade.


I agree totally with you… If you dislike that idea, you should just use the rules of "Throw a dice to see the outcome" which are often used by other wargames system, such as that one used by the Games Workshop company for Warhammer 40K !!!

I mean… You have a troop inside a building which is in "Ambush mode" and the nazi throw a granade or two inside that building ? Ok… Just assign the dice faces from 1 to 3 to the fact that the grenades damage the ambushing troop, and from 4 to 6 to the fact them do not any harm at all… (Imagine the ambushing troops as being "ready to answer the perils" the correct way or in "overwatch" mode or just simply that a heroic dude sacrifices his life to save those of the comrades or similar iconic things from the movies or the historical events). Roll the dice… And "see the outcome"… Then proceed onwards with the scenario / battle.


It is a matter of having fun with each other rather than "apply the correct rules to every case or for every single stuff that appears during the game"…


Hope you got my point of view…


ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [01/07/2019] à 10:38

That's very true Ivan! That's why we pick a quick solution when we can't find a rule and I check later how it supposed to work. But rolling the dice for an outcome or ruling is also a nice way of fixing these situations.


Thanks Nostra! I think I can follow your reasoning.


ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [01/07/2019] à 22:33

Grenades do not affect Ambush units. It doesn't matter of the Ambush unit is in a house or in a cover outside.


The ambush rule adds a bit of fog of war to the game. Even if the players, with their god like ability to see the whole battlefield, know that there is enemy unit in the Ambush counter, the soldiers do not have that same information.


The immunity to grenades and other explosions rule is there to discourage the players from using their perfect knowledge of the battlefield to unfair advantage. Even if the player knows the house is not empty, the troops on the ground won't be wasting a grenade to blast an empty house or vacant spot on the other side of a hedgerow…


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [06/07/2019] à 17:41

I agree white colhammer. You can not hit the troops becaus you do "not" now there are there. So you don't now there are troops so you would not use firearms or grenates on them. You don't throw grenates in to a empty building.


When there are troops you can only hit them and not the ambush one. This is so you can't use this way to kill units that you do not sea.


Zijn er ook nerderlandse spelers onder ons? Omgeving nijmegen, uden, enz.

ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [06/07/2019] à 20:40

Allright, I can respect that. Bringing out the rules lawyer in me, how do you handle assaulting units? I guess you can rule that since you walk in a building, see troops hiding and decide to go to hand to hand combat or not. Although you have to declare an assault before moving your troops in Heroes of Normandie rules.


ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [07/07/2019] à 14:13

Thats a good one. You can't assault troops you do not see, but if you "suddenly" counters them you have to fight. I understand youre way of thinking.


Zijn er ook nerderlandse spelers onder ons? Omgeving nijmegen, uden, enz.

ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [08/07/2019] à 16:16

I think thats the best way to handle this. Its following the rules (declaring the assault ahead of movement) and also checks out when you try to visualise what's happening.


ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [08/07/2019] à 17:12

Keep in mind that in the case of Assault

as you close on the place where the enemy are hiding you will confirm where they are as you move closer. By which I mean you will spot the Ambush and the enemy will be forced to deactivate Ambush.


If it makes you feel better think of it as sending a squad to check out some noise in a building 🙂


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

ambush units in buildings and grenades Posted on [08/07/2019] à 17:14

Quote from Colhammer on [01/07/2019] à 22:33

The immunity to grenades and other explosions rule is there to discourage the players from using their perfect knowledge of the battlefield to unfair advantage. Even if the player knows the house is not empty, the troops on the ground won't be wasting a grenade to blast an empty house or vacant spot on the other side of a hedgerow…


That really is the key point to figuring out how to handle conflicts between concealment mechanics and other rules.


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

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