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In Soviet Russia
In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 09:17

(Image in avatar)


Sometimes the gun does not have bullets…


In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 12:06

You are so lucky ! You've got a Staline dice !


That mean once you have this face you can tell the opponent the number of your choice !


In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 14:25

At the beginning of the war, it was not uncommon to issue one rifle for two people. Some got a single magazine or bullets. Some got a shovel.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 15:03

Citation de slyfox Le [20/11/2019] à 14:25

At the beginning of the war, it was not uncommon to issue one rifle for two people. Some got a single magazine or bullets. Some got a shovel.


It's a popular myth (created mostly by the bad movie "ennemy at the gates"), not an historical fact, even the militia in the early phase of 1941 had weapons for everyone of course it was moslty rifles and not DP-28 or ppsh-41, the only thing that happened during 1941 and even Stalingrad was sometimes the lack of ammos because of the very poor logistics tactics of the red army back in the days (you just have to take a look at the operation Bagration or even Kursk to see how much they improved).


Ammunition, on the other hand, was frequently stretched, sometimes due to incompetence in higher command. Consider this passage from Stalingrad, by Antony Beevor (pp. 143-144):


"When Major Yakovlev, the commander of the machine-gun battalion, by then the highest-ranking officer of the brigade left on the west bank, learned that the brigade commander had deserted and sown panic among the troops, he took over command of the defence.' He soon found he had no communications, since the signallers were among those who had escaped to the island. Aided by Lieutenant Solutsev, Yakovlev rallied the remaining troops, and established a defence line which, in spite of the shortage of men and ammunition, held against seven attacks over the next twenty-four hours. All this time, the brigade commander remained on the island. He did not even try to send more ammunition to the defenders left behind. In an attempt to hide what was happening, he sent fictitious reports on the fighting to 62nd Army headquarters. This did him little good. Chuikov's staff became suspicious. He was arrested and charged with 'Criminal disobedience of Order No. 227'. Although no details are given in the report to Moscow of the sentence pronounced by the NKVD tribunal, clemency is hard to imagine."


Mention can be make about the missing rifles into the training camps in early phase of war but … but even USA had a problem like this and has to trained their recruits with the "Paris Dunn Training Rifle".


You can also read that on a book (don't know if he exist in English) called "Vaincre à tout prix" by Elena Joly, it's all about testimonies of veterans of every ranks and situation, most of them fought at Stalingrad.

You can also read "Red road from Stalingrad" from Mansur Abdulin and if you want to have the true story of Zaitsev read "Notes of a Russian sniper"


In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 18:35

I haven't read those books but I can tell you a short story about my grandfather.


His squad leader informed them that they have been issued several rifles and shovels. They have no contact with the high command. Behind the hills are the german tanks heading their way. He does not know what to do and decided to turn back. Every man is free to make their way back home.


I've heard more stories like this from my grandmother who grew up during WWII and other people who were there.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 19:14

Everyone has his stories of this period I guess … 😉


Can you tell me in wich regiment your grandfather was and where when it happened ? Did he received any award during the war ? A friend of mine works alot with the military archive of Russia and get alot of infos, battle report, weapons staffing sometimes just with the identity of the man (or woman).


In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 19:16

There are definitely many stories.


I can't tell you much more as these stories were passed on to me when I was young and did not have much interest in details. All I know is that my grandfather did not see much combat as he was transferred to a medical/rehabilitation unit.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 19:25

Oh it's a shame … 🙁

That's why it's really important to save their memories ! My great grandfather fought in 1940 and joined the free French in Africa in 1941 but sadly he had alzheimer really early so I could never speack with him … the only thing left are his photos album showing the life during his time in Africa (and France in 1940) but also some nice details like airplanes fighters or bombers.


I collect alot of Soviet medals and awards given during the "Great patriotic war" and thanks to the serial number behind you can find his owner and learn alot about him ! That's why i'm really thanksful to my Russian friend he can really find anything and sometimes testimonies, letters … that's why I asked you about your grandfather.


If you have any interest on that I can share with you stories of the awards that I have (or had for somes) my interest is mostly about tankist but I have also radioman, artillery officier, infantryman or even tank riders.


In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 22:04

Quote from Pilotka on [20/11/2019] à 15:03

It's a popular myth (created mostly by the bad movie "ennemy at the gates"), not an historical fact/


It WAAAAY pre-dates that movie. It was a bit of a legend in the 80's and 90's when I was really into war games. Likely it was extrapolated from the early days of Barbarossa. In fact, that may be the case…


Quote from reddit.com/r/AskHistorians

Large pockets of Soviet defenders were encircled, there was never a "norm" as to what happened during the first days of Barbarossa when large encirclement happened; some resisted bitterly, others were promptly crushed, many more attempted to break out.


However, by the time such a large number of men are encircled and contemplate a breakout attempt, they are rarely a cohesive force; and breakouts, even if successful, from a pocket almost always result in high personnel and materiel losses. Many men filtered through or joined attacks who no longer had their personal weapons or ammunition, or if were lucky enough to have some form of motor transportation, had to abandon their vehicles. The idea of underequipped front-line soldiers being 'herded' forwards with inadequate weaponry is a heady mix of misinterpreted first-hand accounts, propaganda, and lack of Soviet cohesion and tactical acumen during the years 1941-1942. Attacks, for example, that were meant to be well-planned and co-ordinated Soviet Doctrine attacks often got cluttered up, with successive waves attacking together, or with artillery falling too late or too early, giving the image of a rabble conducting a 'human wave' attack, which is a gross oversimplification.


Of course, that is from Reddit, so YMMV.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 22:15

Quote from Afatman on [20/11/2019] à 09:17

(Image in avatar)


Sometimes the gun does not have bullets…


Use the Contact form from the left-hand menu bar to let DPG know there is a problem. Anyone else have dice with blank faces?


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

In Soviet Russia Posted on [20/11/2019] à 22:39

Citation de Nostradunwhich Le [20/11/2019] à 22:04


Quote from Pilotka on [20/11/2019] à 15:03

It's a popular myth (created mostly by the bad movie "ennemy at the gates"), not an historical fact/


It WAAAAY pre-dates that movie. It was a bit of a legend in the 80's and 90's when I was really into war games. Likely it was extrapolated from the early days of Barbarossa. In fact, that may be the case…


I didn't know it was that old but from my generation (90s) when I asked i heard 98% of the times ; "Well, it's what happened in the movie Stalingrad !".


Citation de Nostradunwhich Le [20/11/2019] à 22:04

Of course, that is from Reddit, so YMMV.


Sure, I love history so it's good to take thanks for sharing !

In my opinion yeah, seem like it was extrapolated just like the charge of the polish cavalery against panzer …


You kinda find the same info on another reddit thread :


Tsezar_Kunikov

27 points ·

6 years ago

· edited 6 years ago


Did the Soviet Red Army send troops into battle without rifles on a regular basis during WW2?


No. There are numerous accounts of such instances but they are beyond the norm. I.e. Brest Fortress in 1941 and cities in Ukraine in 1941. The latter is attested to by Khrushchev who was participating in the defense and called Moscow to ask for more weapons.


"…when the war began workers from the Leninskaya Kuznitsa and other plants and factories [in Kiev] asked us to give them weapons. They wanted to take their place on the front lines in support of the Red Army. We couldn't give them anything. I called Moscow. The only person I could talk with then was Malenkov. I called him: 'Tell us where we can get rifles. The workers are asking for rifles. They want to join the ranks of the Red Army and fight the Germans.'" According to Khrushchev many small arms were sent to Leningrad and Malenkov said: "Instructions are being given to forge your own weapons; forge spears and forge knives. You can fight the tanks with bottles filled with gasoline. Throw them and burn up the tanks.'" Memoirs of Nikita Khrushchev Volume 1: Commissar [1918-1945], 326-327.


I would take Khrushchev's memoirs with a grain (or more) of salt as he has his own reasons for writing what he's written. But you can see here that there was a shortage of weapons for volunteers not so much soldiers. Instances when soldiers were short of weapons can also be found but their context needs to be analyzed. If you're talking about something like Brest Fortress, where Red Army forces were cut off, of course there will be issues with ammunition and weapons (and there they regularly turned to the dead, their own and the German, for whatever they could find).


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