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Various Rules Questions and Feedback
Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [07/12/2019] à 01:11

My friendly opponent who is also a big fan of HSTS has a few concerns about that game. I thought that I will post them here and see what the community has to say.


1. Suppressed Penalty


A suppressed MG-34 unit with +4 firing bonus fires back with suppressive fire. This makes it +8 +dice rolls and -2 penalty for a suppressed marker. The -2 should be added to the combat bonus before it is doubled. Thus making it -4. Otherwise, the suppressive marker does not impose enough penalty.


2. Let's do it again action card


US Airborne pack action cards "let's do it again" allows the payer to look through the discard pile and put back into hand any discarded card.


He finds this card overpowered especially if this card pulls out Uncle Sam action card that allows the player to activate the same unit again.


3. Opportunistic Fire


Firing using opportunistic fire after an enemy unit makes a move is thematic. Firing after an enemy unit makes a short without making a move is overpowered and not thematic.


4. Hawkins Mine


Hawkins Mine placed during activation is fine. Placing a Hawkins Mine during the supply phase with a simple move is overpowered.


Please share your thoughts.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [07/12/2019] à 01:29

My response:


1. Suppressed Penalty


He does have a point but this primarily applies to an MG unite with +4. Units with +2 seem to be ok.


2. Let's do it again action card


This is a strong card as well as Uncle Sam. However, you have to be lucky to pull it out first to use it and the deck is thick. Even rarer (but not impossible) is to pull out both cards.


3. Opportunistic Fire


It makes sense to me to fire back at a unit that made a shot without moving. They revealed their position and get shot at.


4. Hawkins Mine


Well, it is a strong weapon but it is not present in every scenario 🙂


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [07/12/2019] à 03:41

1.

Totally agree with your friend. Suppressing with a +6 means that mgs still get to auto suppress despite suffering suppression themselves? Really reduces the usefulness of suppressing no? If you do it the original way (4-2=2, x2 for suppressing) it still gives a +4, which is hardly low, but at least not guaranteed in most cases.

Also, thematically, seems that someone being shot at should have a much tougher time laying down effective suppression for. Also makes a difference for fire on the move units eg support paratroopers.


More later, btw I am in fact the friend 😉


Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [08/12/2019] à 01:01

Let's Do It Again! is (by its very nature) no more powerful than any other card in the game, since it effectively IS some other card in the game.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [08/12/2019] à 14:52

Here are my reflections:


1. In my opinion the Suppressive Fire mechanic works fine as it is. Maybe you should consider suppressing an MG42 twice? It’s an extremely dangerous weapon, a double suppressed marker brings it down by -4. Which makes such an MG a bit more approachable. Thematically, I wouldn’t go near a slightly suppressed MG42 unit, such a weapon firing about is still a crazy 1200rpm weapon. It’s still scary and dangerous. :mrgreen:


2. The chance of that card combo showing up is rather rare. I don’t mind such situations, it’s war, which can swing. If I’d want perfectly controllable situations, I’d play euro games. 😈


3. Don’t agree on your friend’s opinion here. Soldiers hear a shot, discover enemy troopers and shoot back. What’s not thematic about that?


4. Again, HoN is a miniatures war game where list building is a thing. If you take a strong weapon like Hawkins Mines, you’ll balance out again with less points for troopers or something else.


☠☠☠Heroes of Belgium ☠☠☠

Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [08/12/2019] à 19:07

>>Let's Do It Again! is (by its very nature) no more powerful than any other card in the game, since it effectively IS some other card in the game.


Yes, what is does do is make the DECK more powerful, and by more than adding the most powerful card again since I also get some choice about picking a generally less powerful but situationally more important card.

So one has to accept that the para deck is more powerful and hope that was included in the calculations when point costing the units.


>>3. Don’t agree on your friend’s opinion here. Soldiers hear a shot, discover enemy troopers and shoot back. What’s not thematic about that?


Absolutely agree. I might not even see the moving troops but if I hear/experience gunfire and it doesn't suppress me I think it would be an automatic to shoot back? It would actually require veteran or better discipline NOT to do so.


Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [09/12/2019] à 23:17

Quote from Paul Holden on [08/12/2019] à 19:07

>>Let's Do It Again! is (by its very nature) no more powerful than any other card in the game, since it effectively IS some other card in the game.


Yes, what is does do is make the DECK more powerful, and by more than adding the most powerful card again since I also get some choice about picking a generally less powerful but situationally more important card.

So one has to accept that the para deck is more powerful and hope that was included in the calculations when point costing the units.


I see your point.


To clarify my statement a bit more.


(Assuming V1.x card decks)

For the approximately 15 cards that have only one copy, it is definitely more powerful to be able to pull up a second copy of a card. But that is true only if that single-use card is actually useful in your present board state.


If you manage to get N+1 uses out of any particular card, that is somewhat better than an opportune draw where you got the card you needed at the right time.


For the majority of the deck (and the majority of cards played), it is no different than an opportune draw were you got one of the extra copies of a card at a time when you could really use it.


You first have to draw a powerful (situationally) card, use it, then have ALSO drawn the 1 card that will copy that card. It is somewhat better than luck since you can choose which discard you can use again, but I do not think it is nearly the game-changer overall that it is stated as being.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [10/12/2019] à 02:15

To clarify each point further

1. Original rule was perfect, made suppression more useful especially against suppression capable units (mg) and in case of fire on the move units with suppression ability, made it harder for them to walk up and easily suppress enemies prior to an assault (still possible, but harder)


2.

We primarily play scenarios from box sets (sme, carentan)

I’d always found the scenarios well balanced. Suddenly, the US paras, in addition to being pretty tough units, got all these FREE amazing bonus cards. With Brit commandos, the special cards cost points. These cards are added for free. Felt overpowered and “pay to win” as in, whoever bought that set had a major advantage.

The card is killer, the chance that you’ll draw at least one great card is high. Getting to use it twice?!?! Deadly…


3.

Op fire in most (all other?) tactical games means firing at moving enemies. Firing back is what you do on your turn!! The original rules had it right. Waltzing in front of someone Who’s set up or entrenched is prone to op fire. Being fired at, on the other hand, often causes units to duck down… and then fire back on their turn. Otherwise why bother with orders etc. Let’s just have everything happen simultaneously? If the problem was op fire was underpowered re points cost ok, but thematically it flies in the face of EVERY OTHER tactical wargame I’ve ever played. (Combat commander, conflict of heroes, band of brothers, fighting formations, panzer, etc.)


4.

Hawkins mine is good. Trade off is I need to expose myself to plant it. I get a shot at your tank, you probably get a shot at me. Now, you just walk by, perhaps out of Los, or into a house and bloop! You place a Hawkins at practically zero risk?!?!? Seems to powerful, especially being able to place it DURING SUPPLY PHASE?!?!? Used to be that the general supply rule was no attacks, now suddenly you can place bombs in the supply phase??? Seems too easy to plant bombs on tanks with almost zero risk under new rule.


To sum up, love the game, love the system, just feel many changes went the wrong way. Essentially, you had it right the first time DPG! Btw, this is all just opinion, but I’d like to know if any other players (especially those with experience in other systems) had similar thoughts.


Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [10/12/2019] à 04:46

Quote from Sdf3 on [10/12/2019] à 02:15

1. Original rule was perfect, made suppression more useful especially against suppression capable units (mg) and in case of fire on the move units with suppression ability, made it harder for them to walk up and easily suppress enemies prior to an assault (still possible, but harder)


The original rule is exactly the same. Suppression modifiers are never multiplied. That has existed since it was first clarified at some point in 2014.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [10/12/2019] à 04:54

Quote from Sdf3 on [10/12/2019] à 02:15

2.

We primarily play scenarios from box sets (sme, carentan)

I’d always found the scenarios well balanced. Suddenly, the US paras, in addition to being pretty tough units, got all these FREE amazing bonus cards. With Brit commandos, the special cards cost points. These cards are added for free. Felt overpowered and “pay to win” as in, whoever bought that set had a major advantage.

The card is killer, the chance that you’ll draw at least one great card is high. Getting to use it twice?!?! Deadly…


For free? Those cards cost points. The same pack that gives the paratroops the cards includes the point cost recruitment option to get the cards. Where are you seeing them added for free?


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [10/12/2019] à 05:12

Thanks Nostradunwich (in general not only for these answers)


1. I recall a specific detail from v 1.1(or 1.4 or forum?) that clarified suppression reducing attack value BEFORE doubling. Don’t have it in front of me atm as I recently moved and it’s all boxed up.


2. I see, my wily opponent never paid the points!!! I guess he didn’t notice, because he’s very honourable opponent, for example he never shoots POW’s, but very happy to get this clarification. Very… happy Hahahaha.


Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [10/12/2019] à 05:54

Quote from Sdf3 on [10/12/2019] à 05:12

2. I see, my wily opponent never paid the points!!! I guess he didn’t notice, because he’s very honourable opponent, for example he never shoots POW’s, but very happy to get this clarification. Very… happy Hahahaha.


I am sure he just misplaced the option token somewhere. But as a general rule you can never add something to the game without a tile of some sort. It may be a recruitment tile with 0 points actually printed on it, but there IS a recruitment option or recruitment tile for everything 🙂


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Various Rules Questions and Feedback Posted on [11/12/2019] à 01:15

Looks like your friend got the airborne packs, got excited while organizing the components and placed the cards into the regular deck.


Some time had passed and he completely forgot that the cards came with a recruitment tile of 25 points in addition to the rule that these cards can be used only by airborne units.


😀



Happy HoN player in Toronto.

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