Quote from bartdevuyst on [28/05/2020] à 00:17

This is what Full Throttle will look like when used in HoS. 😎

https://youtu.be/6wnCkYcu5_s

Fixed that for ya 🙂

Quote from Alex81 on [28/05/2020] à 13:59

You have to differentiate light vehicles again by the value of the armor. Vehicles up to armor 5 can be played with the full throttle marker. These are usually not troop transporters (Jeep and / or Zündapp etc.). Vehicles from value 6 (light armored vehicles) the modular system is to be used. I think that this combination makes sense and you generate a light armored vehicles and integrate them into the game differently than before.

I like this middle ground approach. With just full throttle, transport vehicles were getting the short end of the stick. With modular damage, motorbikes and the like would be unrealisticly strong. I did notice that zundapp and the jeeps have 7 movement. 7 movement is a better representation for full throttle and a clear cutoff for modular damage. To go that fast you have to lose your armor, so the 4/5 defensive value would also work. I dont have anything outside of WW2, so I do not know what this would impact in shadows or HoBR.

Quote from Afatman on [29/05/2020] à 00:41

Quote from Alex81 on [28/05/2020] à 13:59

You have to differentiate light vehicles again by the value of the armor. Vehicles up to armor 5 can be played with the full throttle marker. These are usually not troop transporters (Jeep and / or Zündapp etc.). Vehicles from value 6 (light armored vehicles) the modular system is to be used. I think that this combination makes sense and you generate a light armored vehicles and integrate them into the game differently than before.

I like this middle ground approach. With just full throttle, transport vehicles were getting the short end of the stick. With modular damage, motorbikes and the like would be unrealisticly strong. I did notice that zundapp and the jeeps have 7 movement. 7 movement is a better representation for full throttle and a clear cutoff for modular damage. To go that fast you have to lose your armor, so the 4/5 defensive value would also work. I dont have anything outside of WW2, so I do not know what this would impact in shadows or HoBR.

Oh maybe I wasn’t that clear ^^

With the modular damage I was referring to medium vehicles like hslftracks, m8, puma etc. for me light vehicles like jeeps should stay with the current damage system

Quote from Alex81 on [28/05/2020] à 13:59

You have to differentiate light vehicles again by the value of the armor. Vehicles up to armor 5 can be played with the full throttle marker. These are usually not troop transporters (Jeep and / or Zündapp etc.). Vehicles from value 6 (light armored vehicles) the modular system is to be used. I think that this combination makes sense and you generate a light armored vehicles and integrate them into the game differently than before.

I really like this approach. It should also be possible to implement those rules without any reprints which was an requirement.

I think I ll like to playtest this on the weekend 🙂

Quote from evilSpike on [29/05/2020] à 07:10

Quote from Afatman on [29/05/2020] à 00:41

Quote from Alex81 on [28/05/2020] à 13:59

You have to differentiate light vehicles again by the value of the armor. Vehicles up to armor 5 can be played with the full throttle marker. These are usually not troop transporters (Jeep and / or Zündapp etc.). Vehicles from value 6 (light armored vehicles) the modular system is to be used. I think that this combination makes sense and you generate a light armored vehicles and integrate them into the game differently than before.

I like this middle ground approach. With just full throttle, transport vehicles were getting the short end of the stick. With modular damage, motorbikes and the like would be unrealisticly strong. I did notice that zundapp and the jeeps have 7 movement. 7 movement is a better representation for full throttle and a clear cutoff for modular damage. To go that fast you have to lose your armor, so the 4/5 defensive value would also work. I dont have anything outside of WW2, so I do not know what this would impact in shadows or HoBR.

Oh maybe I wasn’t that clear ^^

With the modular damage I was referring to medium vehicles like hslftracks, m8, puma etc. for me light vehicles like jeeps should stay with the current damage system

Maybe I wasnt clear. I was suggesting everything with 6 or more armor would have modular damage (halftrack, puma, m8 and the like). everything with 7 or more movement could use Full Throtle (jeeps and bikes).

Quote from Alex81 on [28/05/2020] à 13:59

You have to differentiate light vehicles again by the value of the armor. Vehicles up to armor 5 can be played with the full throttle marker. These are usually not troop transporters (Jeep and / or Zündapp etc.). Vehicles from value 6 (light armored vehicles) the modular system is to be used. I think that this combination makes sense and you generate a light armored vehicles and integrate them into the game differently than before.

Sorry for using dark Rituals on this thread to reaninate it. Has this idea about full throttle been further developed? Actually we used Alex81's approach. From our perspective it fits perfectly. Small vehicles like Motorcycles feel fast and larger light armored vehicles dont get blown up by every german fire team and their Mutter 😎

Full throttle or not I still think light vehicles need something to justify the cost.

We did try it several times in some free battle matches, where we played with bigger armies. I gotta say it was nice to see light vehicles like troop transporters having a better chance to get to their destination without getting killed by the first shots.

There was one occasion where a Halftrack full of US Infantry got hit by a (lucky) MG42 unit. The modular damage system (from the heavy vehicles) determined that it was immobilized. In the next round the halftrack was able to supress the german machine gun unit before it got blown up by a Panzer (rolling a 6). That gave the unloaded US infantry unit some needed protection to get into cover. Both Players agreed that this was a cool scene.

On the other hand there was a Puma trading shots with a Sherman. It took three hits (1. tracks 2nd canon 3rd tracks again) before it died and almost killed the sherman. I still think that it is ok since there is "only" a 20Points difference between those two units.

As much fun as this game is, it is sometimes difficult to say whether something is "balanced" or not. The dice rolls make everything very "swingy". In theory you could one shot a Tiger tank.

We haven't used this approach in scenarios though. I have the feeling that such a significant rule change could throw off some of the missions.

But we will use it again in free battles. Whether it is a perfect solution I can't say but I still think light vehicles need some "love" 🙂

In my opinion, Heroes of Black Reach has a beautiful class-system for heavy vehicles. Some only had two damage marker types, while others had up to six.

Vehicles with only two types of damage markers are obviously easier to destroy than those with more.

I would love to see such a system in the WW2 games as well, but it removes some of its loved simplicity. Heroes of Black Reach has, thanks to its Warhammer 40K roots, a more complex approach and has a few mechanics not available in the WW2-line.

Hopefully I am doing this response correctly.

We use a home-rule approach with the light vehicles to "give them more love" as the expression goes.

They are treated essentially like heavy vehicles with the die-roll and the counter, but there is only one weapon and if it takes 2 hits, it is destroyed.

In this example a half-track could lose its machine gun, but still able to move and transport troops.

Quote from Quickle on [01/06/2020] à 02:46

Quote from Afatman on [31/05/2020] à 23:13

Maybe I wasnt clear. I was suggesting everything with 6 or more armor would have modular damage (halftrack, puma, m8 and the like). everything with 7 or more movement could use Full Throtle (jeeps and bikes).

I'm really liking this idea. For the modular damage, I think we could use the Green damage set from Heroes of Black Reach:

1-2 = Immobilized

3-5 = 2 Suppressed Markers

6 = Destroyed!

Or Yellow:

1-2 = Immobilized

3-4 = 2 Suppressed Markers

5 = Primary Weapon Destroyed (i.e. the only weapon for light vehicles)

6 = Destroyed!

Full Throttle

A unit receives a Full Throttle marker when it moves 5 or more spaces during its Movement Action, without passing through the same space twice.

I think 5 movement spaces is too few, considering the M5 Stuart and Panzer Luchs heavy vehicles from the Core Box both have 5 movement. So maybe 6 or 7 movement would be a better number.

The following units also have 5 movement, and I'm on the fence about whether they should be able to get a Full Throttle marker:

* Der Tote (SoN – Core Box)

* Stormboys (HoBR – Core Box)

* Assault Marines (HoBR – Ultramarines Reinforcement)

These units have 5 movement, and feel it's fair for them to have a Full Throttle marker, although I think they should have more than 5 movement in the first place (they are flying super heroes!!):

* Captain Justice / Evil Anja (SoN – Guardians' Chronicles)

* Cougar Spirit (SoN – Shadow Hunters)