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Booby-trapped
Booby-trapped Posted on [24/06/2020] à 10:39

Just to be sure…


A German unit is in a 4 square building, they are standing next to a door. A wild and crazy US Hero runs up and assaults them.


Does the US Hero "penetrates the building" thus allowing the GE player to play the 'booby-trapped' card ? Or not ?


We had a crazy battle yesterday (Hollywood-style) and this situation happened. Perhaps bart can be persuaded to write a battle report 😉


Booby-trapped Posted on [24/06/2020] à 20:12

I think that it should be possible to use that card… Even if there are german troops just "behind the door"… In fact, as most of the more recent movies show and depict correctly, the bunkers usually had not a door and a clear path or straight entrance just behind it… Instead, they usually had portcullis, "U turn" or "V shaped" tunnels and entrances so to block blasts, grenades and explosions and so to render more dangerous and hard to penetrate the bunkers themselves… Often adding also "dead end" tunnels and/or booby trapped doors and walkways…


So… I think that it should be possible to use such card, and then reproduce the facts I mentioned above…


Booby-trapped Posted on [25/06/2020] à 13:02

And what if it's a common house and not a bunker ?


(that card was the win/lose factor in the battle)


Booby-trapped Posted on [25/06/2020] à 18:34

Quote from Eclo on [25/06/2020] à 13:02

And what if it's a common house and not a bunker ?


(that card was the win/lose factor in the battle)


Theorically ? That door SHOULD not booby trapped if YOUR same troops are RIGHT BEHIND IT !!! Beware what you play and how you place your traps and troops !!! Ok, they are similar words… But HAVE DIFFERENT EFFECTS !!! Deadly at least, if used badly !!! lol lol lol


😉


Booby-trapped Posted on [25/06/2020] à 18:45

Quote from Eclo on [25/06/2020] à 13:02

And what if it's a common house and not a bunker ?


(that card was the win/lose factor in the battle)


You should use it but both the troops should suffer some sort of damage: in reality a door exploding does damage also the troops that trapped it and not only theyr enemies !!! lol lol lol


By the rules ? You should use the trapped door card to kill the entering enemy troops… It should represent the fact that the booby traps and mines are point outwards and not should damage the troops inside.

However… Heroes of Normandie sometimes has rules that conflict with reality: I think expecially the rules of light vehicules, which allow you to save roll for the troops you have inside… And they too often do not suffer even a scratch, just take 2 suppression markers and they save their skin… Which, in reality, it is not so likely… I mean… If a tank shots your poor JEEP, you could be even Walker Texas Ranger, but you ARE LIKELY TO DIE AS SOON AS THE SHOT EXPLODES (YOU ARE RENDERED LIKE TOMATOE SOUP, MORE OR LESS)!!!


In addiction… HoN also has a save roll for the troops inside buildings shot down by artillery barrages / bombing runs… And it is also unlikely to be, in real life… Very few people did survive a carpet bombing by flying fortresses or a very powerful shot of the "big berthas", right into the cute detached house they were taking cover into, in the France's or Poland's countryside !!!


Even in bunkers people died by a shot of heavy guns taken directly… Instead the HoN system allows your troops to be safe and almost unscathed during such events… Just taking 2 supppression markers do not reproduce the harshness of the war… And direct hits from naval guns alike !!!


They should not allow units to survive so easily, in buildings or light vehicules shot directly with heavy artillery / bombs!!! It is not real!!!


Booby-trapped Posted on [25/06/2020] à 21:11

Quote from Ivan Boscaro on [25/06/2020] à 18:45

They should not allow units to survive so easily, in buildings or light vehicules shot directly with heavy artillery / bombs!!! It is not real!!!


Sorry Ivan, but your basic premise is flawed.


Quote from Compendium Edition rules introduction

Heroes of Normandie is a tactical scale strategy game set in World War II that uses the Heroes System, which is designed to enable you to recreate Hollywood-like epic battles on your tabletop.


HSTS games are not strictly a tactical simulation game. It is a "Heroic" game where very dramatic turns can flip the outcome of a battle. Thus people can survive artillery just like Rambo running through mortar explosions. An armor-piercing shell hitting the side of a tank at a perfect perpendicular angle will somehow bounce right off. That is how this game goes.


You are certainly free to interpret things according to your interest in realism, but that is not 100% consistent with the intent of the rules. That does not mean that I am arguing in favor of "anything you want that will help you win" but I suppose I would err on the side of "Dramatic" rather than "Realistic".


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Booby-trapped Posted on [26/06/2020] à 07:01

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [25/06/2020] à 21:11


Quote from Ivan Boscaro on [25/06/2020] à 18:45

They should not allow units to survive so easily, in buildings or light vehicules shot directly with heavy artillery / bombs!!! It is not real!!!


Sorry Ivan, but your basic premise is flawed.


Quote from Compendium Edition rules introduction

Heroes of Normandie is a tactical scale strategy game set in World War II that uses the Heroes System, which is designed to enable you to recreate Hollywood-like epic battles on your tabletop.


HSTS games are not strictly a tactical simulation game. It is a "Heroic" game where very dramatic turns can flip the outcome of a battle. Thus people can survive artillery just like Rambo running through mortar explosions. An armor-piercing shell hitting the side of a tank at a perfect perpendicular angle will somehow bounce right off. That is how this game goes.


You are certainly free to interpret things according to your interest in realism, but that is not 100% consistent with the intent of the rules. That does not mean that I am arguing in favor of "anything you want that will help you win" but I suppose I would err on the side of "Dramatic" rather than "Realistic".



Ok… Then, the main "goal" of HoN system is to recreate Rambo style movies or heroic actions… But since I do prefer realism and reality-linked wargames I do use the rules and the game pieces of the system to reproduce real life events… And then I do play the system not allowing so much "Rambo style" things… Sorry.


But I prefer to play like that and I think that is a point of view worthy some respect… In my opinion the Heroes system can be used to play not "Rambo style" but instead, to play like "real stuff"… Am I wrong ? I don't think so !!!


By the way: even by playing the system "like real stuff should be", and not "Rambo Style" (as it should be supposed to be)… It happened, during my gaming sessions, to see very heroic and epic events…

In a scenario I made 100% by myself, played and showed to my friends in the local gaming club of Asti, the town in which I live, it happened that an heroic group of US Combat Enginers and Rangers had to pass over a mined bridge and rescue also a UK pilot / spy kept in a cellar by the SS…

The SS (I used Ilda and her retinue, from "Civilians under fire" and the 1st SS panzer division set elements along with another tile of SS panzergrenadieren for the other sets) where strictly entrenched and encastled upon the opposite river bank and they kept under killing zone the bridge… Well… The US managed (with lots of losses) to bypass the encastled SS troops by discovering a fording on a side of the german troops and up the riverbanks… Unfortunately, after having been spotted and having attracted the fire in order to allow the Engineers to run upon the bridge, the SS managed to blow up the bridge itself… So, the Engineers were mostly killed and shredded up into smithereens by the dinamites placed upon the bridge… And very few survived, the most of them having to swim towards the river bank where SS K-9 and machinegun nests stood. The epic hand-to-hand combat, involving also dogs that ensued afterwards was memorable… Showing heroism and suffering heavy losses the US managed to take the opposite river banks… But the UK pilot was taken away by Ilda's retinue before the US reached or had a chance to save him… Because a sniper well placed (and his VERY good dice rolls !!! lol lol lol) "won the day" by allowing his "kamaraden" to bring that UK spy pilot with them.

The main goal for US troops was reached (take their ar***s upon the other river banks of the Rhyne)… But they had to behave heroically, suffering heavy losses and watching that important bridge to be blown up along with fellow comrades in arms in one go.

If I had followed the HoN system rules the US troops running upon the bridge could have passed it over unscathed and maybe could have avoid the UK spy to be sent away (but they didn't know his presence into one of the SS bunkers / defensive positions… It was a secondary objective, not met at all; the other one was the spotting of the fording and the SS sniper-nest defending the prison where that UK dude was kept captive, which was instead achieved !!!).

As you see, also with "maximum realism" it could happen to occur that some "Rambo heroics" feats and events take place…

I also watched a historical documentary into which the men of the D-Day were interviewed about their experience; and one of the US paratroopers that landed that day, reported clearly a "Rambo-like event" that saw his life spared by the fate: he landed right in front of a MG nest and that MG was firing tracers rounds as hell… Well… He told the interviewer that the MG operator shot him while he was trying to un-link himself from the parachute and stand up… And the MG rounds and tracers hit him right in the chest… But the goddess Fortune that day was by his side, and those bullets and tracers hit him, but only by the side; one was blocked by his canteen and ammo clips that he had on his belts and ammo pouches…

He was badly wounded on the lower mandible and face… But he managed to survive somehow…

Even in real life a man could face certain death for most of the people and save his life somehow… While certain other times – in war expecially – it is quite often reported or heard of men died by flying bullets or in the rare moment of quiet just due to accidents or similar stuff… Sometimes there are also "car accidents" that involve soldiers… And then they die due to car accidents… In war !!!


If a person has not yet "reached his moment to depart", he will survive… But if someone lacks fortune… There are no saints that can save you !!!


I could report an event that occurred in WW I to one of my "proto" uncles…

He was the uncle of my grand-dad and he was an italian alpine trooper… As most of the WW I italian troops were, on the Alpine Italian front…

Well. He met with his brother during an artillery barrage from the Austro-Hungarians, and they talked each other for a while inside a trench and whised each other farewell and good luck (since they were not in the same company).

After those fraternal greetings and when that barrage seemed to be over, they walked away from each other, one to the right the other to the left side of their position / trench…

And – so was reported to me by my grand-dad and his relatives that knew that story – a sudden explosion occurred…

And even if they were only a few meters away from each other my grand-grand-uncle was not wounded at all by the Austrian shell / explosion… Which instead took the life of his brother, whose body was not even found at all (I let you imagine what horrible fate happened to that man, when the artillery shell exploded onto him).


Realism and reality often depicts such kind of events… Or heroic feats… In the case I reported before this "real life experience" of my ancestors… Often they are "Rambo Style", or more often, they are mere "interlopings" of fate and training / expertise; which both concur into defining how a certain event or life should end or continue…


And there are plenty of such cases.

Another similar one, saw my grand-dad himself as the main protagonist.

He was a frontier guard / alpine trooper too, deployed on the italian – french border, but during WW II…

During the famous "8 September" (the day into which the Italian Army splitted… Starting the "Italian civil war", with the italians fighting against each other, one side along with the former German ally and the other side along with the American and British allies) the company of my g-dad was routed and encircled by a group of germans, directed by Rommel himself, if I do remember it well; his commander then told to my g-dad and his fellow comrades to save their lives and flee… And so did my g-dad, which saved himself along with another soldier which was a friend of him… They were sick and tired of the war and they decided to stop the fightings and return to their homes and families.

They did that by stealing civilian clothings and by walking upon and over the mountains range that goes parallel to the italian coast; from the French border they marched day and night, night and day… Ever walking over the "Maritime Alps" range… Eating even rats and cats, drinking water from the alpine rivers and so on… Along the whole Maritime Alps range, which ends in Tuscany!!! Where they were directed to. Since, before the war, both of them lived in Tuscany, and only after the war my g-dad decided to come and live here in Asti; where I was born.

One of my uncles instead, decided to became a "maquisard / partisan" and he was captured by the SS and badly beaten… He however managed to survive the war. Many others instead were not so fortunate… Usually the partisans were shot in the head after a brief "interrogation" by SS troopers…


Booby-trapped Posted on [26/06/2020] à 10:54

Guys, a simple 'Yes' of 'No' would have sufficed 😀 😀


Having re-read the assault rules, the assault unit must 'enter' the defenders square… which in my case was inside the house so the Booby trapped card could be played.


So I think we played it correct.


Booby-trapped Posted on [26/06/2020] à 11:07

😎


☠☠☠Heroes of Belgium ☠☠☠

Booby-trapped Posted on [26/06/2020] à 11:52

Quote from bartdevuyst on [26/06/2020] à 11:07

😎


Yeah, I wanted to be sure… I don't want to win a battle by playing cards wrong and certainly not if that single card was the deciding factor between win or lose…


I think people really want a battle report, bart… hint, hint


Booby-trapped Posted on [26/06/2020] à 11:57

I know, I know, I've been thinking about writing a compilation of the hottest action moments! 😎


Next time, we should take some pictures. :mrgreen:


☠☠☠Heroes of Belgium ☠☠☠

Booby-trapped Posted on [26/06/2020] à 13:15

Quote from bartdevuyst on [26/06/2020] à 11:57

I've been thinking about writing a compilation of the hottest action moments!


Good idea… please highlight the last assault of Wild Bill Guarnere 😀 😀 😀


edit : pictures, yes, we should think of that next time.


Booby-trapped Posted on [26/06/2020] à 19:47

Indeed! Some pictures and an AAR would be terrific :mrgreen:


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

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