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Use of mortars
Use of mortars posté le [23/09/2017] à 22:22

Hi,

just a query about the mortar/indirect fire rules.


Can a mortar simply target any interspace on the table? I understand the difference between clear line of sight and the use of the artillery spotter ability but it make mortars very powerful. It's not too bad if there is only one mortar but include a mortar platoon and get all three firing only at officers and you pretty quickly can lose all your orders especially with the Barrage order.


One thought is to allow mortars to fire at interspaces that any person in your army has clear LoS to. No bonuses at all unless it happens to be a spotter.


Any thoughts? 🙄


Use of mortars posté le [24/09/2017] à 04:49

I use a house rule for mortars fired in a barrage. Instead of each shot resolving separately, I treat it like one of the artillery cards:


Place the first pattern on any interspace. Check for dispersion. Reroll the die. Place the second pattern 2 interspaces away, in the direction indicated. On a result of 5 or 6 you can choose the direction. Do the same for the third blast pattern.


This way, two mortar rounds rarely ever land in the same location. Instead, they cover a wider area. Admittedly, I feel mortars are weak when used this way, so this might not be the best change.


Use of mortars posté le [24/09/2017] à 09:31

Hmm. thanks for that. to be honest we haven't used the barrage rule yet. I plan to tomorrow! It was more a problem with a 500 point US army that had ten orders and three mortars. Every turn he could order each individually and just chase down my commanders.


It seemed unfair to be able to use the 'view of God' to target a single commander figure hidden from any view so perfectly. Unfortunately most of the mortar shots came in on target so they didn't stand much of a chance and I wondered if we were using the mortars correctly when it came to being able to select the target so easily.


Maybe a new template for no LoS hitting on a '6' and having a bigger dispersal? 💡


Use of mortars posté le [24/09/2017] à 19:45

Well, you could try this house rule: a mortar blast pattern cannot be placed over an officer, unless a non-officer is also affected. (i.e. you can't target officers, unless there are troops nearby).


So far out of several games played, my mortars have done almost nothing (bad rolls!), while my brother's mortars have been devastating (excellent rolls!).


You might like to read this thread on BoardGameGeek: Heroes of Normandie | Mortars.


Use of mortars posté le [24/09/2017] à 21:21

Thanks again Quickie.

I like the idea of only targeting Officers if other units are also under the template.

We're playing tomorrow and I'm going to give a taste back of the mortar issue and see if it changes any minds!


I'll report back.

Cheers


Use of mortars posté le [24/09/2017] à 22:50

No problem! I look forward to the debriefing afterwards.


Use of mortars posté le [25/09/2017] à 14:58

I also play with the house rule that you can only target officers if there are other teams under the template too.


I don't like the mortars acting like snipers (hunting officers).


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Use of mortars posté le [25/09/2017] à 18:41

Quote from Quickle on [24/09/2017] à 04:49

Place the first pattern on any interspace. Check for dispersion. Reroll the die. Place the second pattern 2 interspaces away, in the direction indicated. On a result of 5 or 6 you can choose the direction. Do the same for the third blast pattern.


So what you are saying is:

Target an officer, After the first dispersion you then have a 50% chance to drop the shot back on the officer (since on a 5 or 6 you can choose the direction to drop it right back on him, and one of the directions is the opposite direction from the original dispersion.) If you have a Second Chance card, that turns into a 75% chance to drop it right on him — you miss 50% of the time, but with a re-roll you get another 50% chance to drop on him, so 50%+(50%*50%).


I do not think that is the answer you are looking for. 😉


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Use of mortars posté le [25/09/2017] à 19:13

Although I do have a strong preference to using RAW (rules as written), I must admit that I perhaps have a different perspective as my opponent and I just don't play like that. We would not consider dropping multiple mortars onto officers to try and cut down on our opponent's orders. Does not make for a fun game.


So I suppose we are already using the house rule proposed by others.


Edit: I have modified this to be anytime you do not have LoS to the target square, not just on the 1st turn.


I have been thinking about some alternate options when you are attempting to target an Interspace to which none of your Command (yellow border) or Artillery Spootter units have Clear or Obscured LoS.


Option A

If you do not have LoS to the target interspace, use the following rule for Mortar attacks.
Scatter is 3 interspaces
Roll a d6:
1 to 4 - shot scatters in the direction indicated by the dispersal amount. If the amount is 0 or fewer squares, the shot lands directly on target and hits the target intersection.
5 - Subtract 1 interspace to scatter amount and roll again.
6 - Add 1 interspace from scatter amount and roll again.

Option A works fairly well with Forward Observers, although it could take a few die rolls to determine the results of the Mortar shot. There is a chance you can drop the attack directly on the head of your target, since there is always a chance it could happen.


Option B

If you do not have LoS to the target interspace, use the following rule for Mortar attacks.
Set template so that direction 1 points away from the mortar unit on either the closest orthogonal or diagonal.
Roll a d6:
1 to 4 - shot scatters in direction indicated on the template.
5 - shot scatters in direction 1, but scatters +1 interspaces.
6 - shot scatters in direction 3, but scatters +1 interspaces.

This one also works reasonably logically with Forward Observers, but not as well. If you have a Forward Observer and plan well you have a slightly improved chance to drop the mortar on top of an officer.

It does have the advantage of using only a single die to resolve the dispersal.


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Use of mortars posté le [26/09/2017] à 20:19

Ok so I played Commonweath troops and ended up with 3 x 3 inch mortars.

We played the rules as written although I didn't always target Officers as it seems a bit too much and actually there were time I needed to threaten something else.


The game played out ok as I wasn't as accurate as I might want so less devastating that it could have been.


It is pretty obvious that there needs to be a tweak to stop the mortar form sniping.


We've come up with a couple of options.


1. You can only target an interspace that is visible to one of your troops.

– ok but doesn't allow the lobbing of a shell over a blind spot.


I've thought of a second maybe more realistic option.


2. With no line of sight the firer selects the terrain square to fire into (seems fair enough!).


The tiles are 7 x 7 squares but that equals 6 x 6 interspaces (do you see where I'm going). So you dice for 'longitude' and 'lattitude' to select a more random space for the shell to try to land on. You still roll for dispersal. Hopefully not too complicated and more representative.


Thoughts?


Use of mortars posté le [26/09/2017] à 20:44

Option 2 seems interesting, although I feel the mortar fire would be quite inaccurate.


One shortcoming: if your opponent's forces are straddling two terrain tiles you are can only target half the force, rather than lobbing shells into the center mass. Perhaps you can choose an arbitrary 6×6 interspaces?


Use of mortars posté le [26/09/2017] à 20:50

Fair point but it shouldn't be so accurate with no LoS, after all thats the point of not being able to select the interspace. You could alter the dice if firing at the same spot in consecutive turns (not thought about that yet).


As for troops in connecting tiles, the dispersal could take it into that area.


Use of mortars posté le [26/09/2017] à 21:13

Quote from Panzerfear on [26/09/2017] à 20:19

2. With no line of sight the firer selects the terrain square to fire into (seems fair enough!).


The tiles are 7 x 7 squares but that equals 6 x 6 interspaces (do you see where I'm going). So you dice for 'longitude' and 'lattitude' to select a more random space for the shell to try to land on. You still roll for dispersal. Hopefully not too complicated and more representative.


Thoughts?


Mortars are not that inaccurate. If you are going to roll X and Y coordinates randomly on a board, then don't disperse it on top of that. That is still pretty inaccurate, but better than being off by an entire board.


Let me give you an example possible with your system:


I am playing on a 2×2 battlefield. Our forces have met in the middle. I try to shoot at the concealed panzerfaust in the upper left corner of the map. I have some bad luck and roll 6,6 so now the Mortar is going to land near the middle of the grid. I place the dispersal template and roll a 3 and now the template has wandered into my own troops, which are in clear LoS of the Mortar unit doing the firing.


That is why I proposed my two options… you at least usually land in the postal code of where you were shooting, but just not directly on top of your target.


The problem is there is no Fog of War in HoN.

In an actual battle you would not know where the enemy is (at least until you have LoS to them), certainly not the commander. However, if you fire a bunch of mortars into a wood where you would expect the enemy to be and he is, there is a good chance that a lot of those enemy soldiers are going to get hurt and that could include command models.


The standard Indirect Fire results allow you to be on target 33% of the time, so with a couple of Mortars you can pretty much snipe where you want.


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Use of mortars posté le [26/09/2017] à 21:24

I have been thinking about this a bit more, and updated my earlier post to use those new rules anytime neither your Command nor Artillery Spooter units have LoS (Clear or Obstructed) to the target Interspace.


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Use of mortars posté le [26/09/2017] à 21:46

And I've been thinking too. I suggest with my option 2 (above) that a subsequent shot at the same interspace allows you to alter the long/lat roles by 1, by 2 for a third shot etc.


Use of mortars posté le [30/09/2017] à 10:51

Mortar fire is the only house rule we use;

A mortar can fire by LoS, deviation 1 from mortar unit or by LoS from any unactivated officer deviation 2 unless the spotting unit has spotter trait(binoculars) in which case deviation is 1. Then Mark the spotter and mortar as activated.

No unsighted firing.


Rick Brown

Use of mortars posté le [05/10/2017] à 00:18

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [26/09/2017] à 21:13


The problem is there is no Fog of War in HoN.

In an actual battle you would not know where the enemy is (at least until you have LoS to them), certainly not the commander. However, if you fire a bunch of mortars into a wood where you would expect the enemy to be and he is, there is a good chance that a lot of those enemy soldiers are going to get hurt and that could include command models.



But you would still need to have a plan as to when you were going to fire?


Additional deviation is not, therefore, simulating actual inaccuracy in the weapon system but in the knowledge of when and where to fire it. Whether this works for you is often a symptom of how frequently you have seen such speculative fire deviate onto a more vital target than the original one!


I've seen different games systems deal with this in different ways, including the most realistic option of needing to designate speculative fire plans in advance of the game beginning, something that is probably not suitable for HoN!


One other option is to use some system that means the weapon may not even fire if there is no definite target, something as simple as if no spotter/LOS then 50/50 chance that the fire has no effect at all, don't roll deviation, don't collect 200 suppression markers, just move on to the next order counter…


Use of mortars posté le [29/05/2018] à 21:59

An interesting discussion on this one,,,,,,,,,,,,


Our group has gone back and forth on the indirect fire rules as well. I understand that the indirect fire rules in HON are set up to be fast play, but the ability to successfully target units you cannot see appears to be a bit to easy in the system.


I like some of the ideas presented here and will give them a go in our next game.


Use of mortars posté le [30/05/2018] à 18:32

Huh. Honestly we’ve always thought that you could only target indirectly with a spotter unit to assist. I guess we’ve just played so many other games with that rule that we think it’s standard to this game as well.

Runelord’s idea looks the most logical and easy answer to the problem, though Nos’s option B is also of interest.


Use of mortars posté le [13/08/2018] à 20:40

Simple change idea:


For interspaces you cannot draw LOS too, the roll is modified as follows:


1-4, scatters appropriately.

5, the fire is widely scattered and has no effect.

6, the fire is on target


That reduces the probability of an on-target 'snipe' by half.


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