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Several question (cross-post from BGG)
Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [01/05/2014] à 00:45

Hey, so I have posted this on BGG but it isn't getting any attention on there, so I thought I'd try here as well. I perused the forums here and I can see some other folks have touched upon some of the questions I have but I don't see an answer to their questions yet, so I will leave my own version of their questions on this list so as to have a single place with the answers to all of those queries:


1. Ambushed units in buildings – it says in the rules that in order to fire on a unit inside a building, said unit needs to be adjacent to the appropriate window. If I have an ambushed unit in the building that is not directly adjacent to a window, would an enemy unit moving next to that window (and consequently being 2 spaces away from my ambushed one) reveal me? In short – does the building protection address only being fired at or is it more generally a statement on LoS?


2. Does a unit's ZoC include spaces occupied by other units? Basically, if I have 3 units in a row, is there any way to assault the middle one, considering the space you would be starting from would be inside the ZoC of at least one of the other units and if the middle one also counts as such, that should be impossible.


3. Scout ability and Bonus Tactics – the rules say that a unit with Scout cannot deploy next to a main, secondary or bonus objective but there are technically no bonus objectives – only bonus tactics. Am I correct in thinking those are still covered by that rule and a unit with Scout cannot deploy next to one of those?


4. Weak Point (Action Card) – does this card basically just mean you target the weakest armor a vehicle has, regardless of the direction of the shot?


5. Return to Sender (Action Card) – does the direction of the return have to be exactly along the lines as counted by the attacker or do I just get to redirect the grenade 1 interspace in any direction?


6. Battle Rage (Action Card) – this says play DURING an assault but do I have to play it before rolling dice or can I do it after?


7. Surprise (Action Card) – what does the last part about Dominant Position mean?


8. Don't Stop (Action Card) – what happens if the unit receives a suppressed marker, which reduces its speed so that it can no longer make it all the way out of the rough terrain? Does it count as having stopped before entering? Does it exit? Does it go boom?


9. Driven Back (Action Card) – this card seems to interact oddly with a bunch of different scenarios. Is it simply meant to make a unit retreat or does it HAVE to be toward their deployment zone. If that is so, what happens if the deployment zone is the center of the board and we're fighting right there? What happens if I am actually closer to that unit's deployment zone than it is (moreover, it would most commonly have to pass through my ZoC in those circumstances)?


10. Thank the Helmet (Action Card) – the card specifically says it cannot be used to cancel an assault damage, but what about Hit and Run? I am interpreting the card as saving you from being shot and maybe from grenades but I don't think thanking your helmet would mean much if you're looking at the underside of a Panzer.


11. The part about vehicles being unable to stop if either of the two adjoining spaces is inaccessible. This (along with the pictures) makes me wonder two things – one picture shows a vehicle overlapping (diagonally) an infantry unit so I guess infantry are not inaccessible, is that correct? Furthermore, the next set of pictures shows how a vehicle cannot stop between a tank and a hedgerow. So my question here is – is the tank relevant? Would the hedgerow be enough to prevent the halftrack from stopping because it is inaccessible or do BOTH spaces have to be inaccessible for that to occur? Is the tank an inaccessible tile? Would two infantry units with an adjoining angle prevent a tank from stopping between them? Mostly my issue stems from the pictures showing more stuff than the text addresses and so I wonder how much of it is relevant 😕


Thanks, and I hope this gets noticed here more than on BGG!


Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [01/05/2014] à 13:59

1. Ambushed units in buildings – it says in the rules that in order to fire on a unit inside a building, said unit needs to be adjacent to the appropriate window. If I have an ambushed unit in the building that is not directly adjacent to a window, would an enemy unit moving next to that window (and consequently being 2 spaces away from my ambushed one) reveal me? In short – does the building protection address only being fired at or is it more generally a statement on LoS?

If the unit outside the building has a clear line of sight on the ambushed unit inside the building, then the answer is YES.

2. Does a unit's ZoC include spaces occupied by other units? Basically, if I have 3 units in a row, is there any way to assault the middle one, considering the space you would be starting from would be inside the ZoC of at least one of the other units and if the middle one also counts as such, that should be impossible.

Nope…Check that : http://www.devil-pig-games.com/en/forum/?action=viewtopic&t=1123.0#postid-3593

3. Scout ability and Bonus Tactics – the rules say that a unit with Scout cannot deploy next to a main, secondary or bonus objective but there are technically no bonus objectives – only bonus tactics. Am I correct in thinking those are still covered by that rule and a unit with Scout cannot deploy next to one of those?

YES

4. Weak Point (Action Card) – does this card basically just mean you target the weakest armor a vehicle has, regardless of the direction of the shot?

YES

5. Return to Sender (Action Card) – does the direction of the return have to be exactly along the lines as counted by the attacker or do I just get to redirect the grenade 1 interspace in any direction?

NO

6. Battle Rage (Action Card) – this says play DURING an assault but do I have to play it before rolling dice or can I do it after?

Before

7. Surprise (Action Card) – what does the last part about Dominant Position mean?

Some buildings (such as the fortified farm) has a dominant position that is higher than the first floor.

8. Don't Stop (Action Card) – what happens if the unit receives a suppressed marker, which reduces its speed so that it can no longer make it all the way out of the rough terrain? Does it count as having stopped before entering? Does it exit? Does it go boom?

It exits

9. Driven Back (Action Card) – this card seems to interact oddly with a bunch of different scenarios. Is it simply meant to make a unit retreat or does it HAVE to be toward their deployment zone. If that is so, what happens if the deployment zone is the center of the board and we're fighting right there? What happens if I am actually closer to that unit's deployment zone than it is (moreover, it would most commonly have to pass through my ZoC in those circumstances)?

Let me think on this one…

10. Thank the Helmet (Action Card) – the card specifically says it cannot be used to cancel an assault damage, but what about Hit and Run? I am interpreting the card as saving you from being shot and maybe from grenades but I don't think thanking your helmet would mean much if you're looking at the underside of a Panzer.

No, only assault

[Obsolete]11. The part about vehicles being unable to stop if either of the two adjoining spaces is inaccessible. This (along with the pictures) makes me wonder two things – one picture shows a vehicle overlapping (diagonally) an infantry unit so I guess infantry are not inaccessible, is that correct? Furthermore, the next set of pictures shows how a vehicle cannot stop between a tank and a hedgerow. So my question here is – is the tank relevant? Would the hedgerow be enough to prevent the halftrack from stopping because it is inaccessible or do BOTH spaces have to be inaccessible for that to occur? Is the tank an inaccessible tile? Would two infantry units with an adjoining angle prevent a tank from stopping between them? Mostly my issue stems from the pictures showing more stuff than the text addresses and so I wonder how much of it is relevant 😕

Both space. the tank is an inaccessible space. Two infantry units don't prevent vehicles to stop between them. I'll make more pictures to illustrate that


Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [01/05/2014] à 19:39

Thanks for the response, Clem! My friends and I are really enjoying the game 🙂 I would just like to ask for a more complete answer to number 5 (about Return to Sender) – you answered NO, but I am not sure what it refers to 😀 Do I have to send it back toward the launch site? Can I simply redirect it 1 space in any direction?


Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [02/05/2014] à 14:57

Return to sender : Any direction !

Glad to ear you enjoy the game !


Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [23/03/2019] à 20:59

6. Battle Rage (Action Card) – this says play DURING an assault but do I have to play it before rolling dice or can I do it after?


Before


Resurrecting this thread. It seems to me that this answer is incorrect or outdated.


Pg. 44 of Compendium states that the steps of the assault attack are:


1. Roll the dice and keep the best result.

2. Add combat value.

3. Add any other available bonuses such as action cards.

4. Subtract penalties.


Thus, Battle Rage would be added after the die roll.


Correct?


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [23/03/2019] à 23:07

Great that they helpt you out hier. Niw i hope you can fight youre battles better. Good luck.


Zijn er ook nerderlandse spelers onder ons? Omgeving nijmegen, uden, enz.

Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [24/03/2019] à 01:34

I think they were discussing when the card should be played instead of when the bonus is applied.


Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [24/03/2019] à 04:11

Quote from WayneCW on [24/03/2019] à 01:34

I think they were discussing when the card should be played instead of when the bonus is applied.


This.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [24/03/2019] à 04:39

But the answer that was given “Before” is incorrect. The steps of the assault indicate that action cards are played after the dice roll. Thus, you can see what you get and then play the card.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [24/03/2019] à 07:55

It is a two step process.


You PLAY the card BEFORE the dice roll.


You ADD the bonus from the card AFTER the dice roll.


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [24/03/2019] à 08:48

^ This is how we read and play it as well.


Play Card, Roll Die, Add Bonus


Member of the « Cult of the Inexisting New » – Thanks bartdevuyst

Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [24/03/2019] à 09:14

Quote from Colhammer on [24/03/2019] à 07:55

It is a two step process.


You PLAY the card BEFORE the dice roll.


You ADD the bonus from the card AFTER the dice roll.


Let me see if I can explain it a bit more clearly.


Clem was addressing when a player can play the card, it had nothing to do with when the bonus is added to the result. You play the card when the card tells you to play it, and that bonus is now a part of the Assault. It will be added at the appropriate time.


You are confusing an identifier of where a bonus came from for when you can play the card.


In HoN, you have to choose to play things that add a +1 to a roll BEFORE the dice roll. If you did not, then you would have additional information — you would only play the card if it would help you, and could save it if the roll was not high enough to matter or if the die roll itself was high enough to succeed without playing the card. You don't get to have that sort of information in HoN, you must choose to commit the card or token before the dice are rolled.


It is the same way you add an Ammo counter to a Shot BEFORE you roll the dice.


Once the Battle Fury card is committed, its bonus becomes "part of the Assault" and one of the (possibly many) bonuses waiting to be added to your RESULT at the appropriate time. Just like a Defender's terrain bonus, an Assault +2 ability bonus, an Alternate Bonus, or any other relevant bonuses.


Or to put it another way: You must commit your unit by declaring an Assault before you roll the dice, and you must likewise commit your Battle Fury card before you roll the dice.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [24/03/2019] à 21:44

Here is what I am confused about:


Compendium assault rules for the attacker:


1. The attacker rolls 2 dice, keeps the best result and adds the combed value appropriate to the enemy unit's type (vs either infantry, light vehicles, or heavy vehicles.


2. The attacker also adds any other bonuses (special abilities, action cards, recruitment options, etc.) and subtracts any penalties.


Battle rage action cards:


"Play during an assault (whether attacking or defending) Add +2 to the result of your die roll."


So the Compendium rule indicates that an action card is played after the dice roll. Thus, I was under the impression that the attacker does not apply any damage until all the modifiers are taking into account. Battle rage action card is a modified that is played during the assault.


However, what you are saying is that during the assault is played as soon as the player announces that he is doing an assault?


In HoN, you have to choose to play things that add a +1 to a roll BEFORE the dice roll.


It would be nice if this was stated in the compendium book under action cards.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [25/03/2019] à 03:35

Quote from clem on [01/05/2014] à 13:59

6. Battle Rage (Action Card) – this says play DURING an assault but do I have to play it before rolling dice or can I do it after?

Before


The card tells you that you must play the card during the Assault, and Clem has clarified that "during" means "before the dice are rolled".


The Ambush rules state, "adds any other available bonuses (special abilities, action cards, recruitment options, etc.)"


The term "add" in this case is strictly mathematical. It is "include in the combat result the sum of all other available bonuses, which bonuses can be derived from Special Abilities, Action Cards you played, recruitment options, Alternate Bonuses from Action cards you played, etc."


I could argue that if you failed to play the card at the time the roll is made, then the bonus is not "available" as you failed to play it. That is a valid interpretation of "available". English is not a perfect language.


So let's go with the spirit of the rule and the clarification from one of the two game creators, shall we?


The card decks were developed as part of the original game design and were not well translated. DPG has learned a lot about getting better translations since those cards were written, but those cards are what we have to work with for now. That is why it, unfortunately, does not explicitly state that you must play it before rolling the dice.


In the V2.0 deck, the Battle Fury card has been replaced by the Alternate bonus, whose rules do clearly state that an Action card must be played BEFORE the roll or before starting a move action in order to use the Alternate Bonus. Likewise, it is clearly stated for equipment (under "Generalities" it states that a token must be spent before your action or before any die roll) because that is the general mechanic that is used by the HSTS system — any bonus to a roll must be committed before the action is taken.


I will freely admit that this existed as a "meta-understanding" to which both DPG and others who have translated the rules have fallen prey. It was not clearly stated as such in all places. That is on us.


Thanks for pointing out the issue, I would wish you had done it a few years ago so that the Compendium could have been more clearly written. 😉


However, I will state one final time that this is the spirit (intent) of the rules. That is how it should be done. That is why it was stated that way by Clem and that has never changed.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Several question (cross-post from BGG) posté le [25/03/2019] à 04:01

Got it. Again, thank you very much for your detailed explanation.


Very much waiting for HoN 2.0 Compendium Edition.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

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