Bienvenue visiteur, pour poster sur ce forum vous devez vous enregistrer.
Flux RSS MembresRecherche
Pages : 1
[Suggestion] Open Topped Vehicles
Open Topped Vehicles posté le [12/02/2019] à 18:46

1. Can the enemy shoot at my Lt. in a jeep?

2. Can the enemy assault my Lt. in a jeep?

3. If my jeep receives a suppression token is my Lt. also suppressed?


My opponent is having a hard time getting out of the "in real life" mode and thinks my jeep is too powerful when I am able to drive up and grab objectives.

He asked these questions trying to figure out how to deal with my mobile Lt.


I know there used to be the Open Top rule in Frontiers; it seems to have been dropped in HoN?


Thank you.


Open Topped Vehicles posté le [12/02/2019] à 19:09

No to all three questions. Your passenger can shoot out if he has separate order from the Jeep.


Jeep is not very sturdy vehicle, so it can be destroyed pretty easily.


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [12/02/2019] à 20:16

A Jeep is a light vehicle with a Defense of 5. An MG 42, Panzerfaust or even a Grenade will usually do a number on one. If your opponent is struggling that much, then I would recommend a Puma. That is very powerful for a Light Vehicle and will shred the Jeep and its passenger in turn 🙂


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [12/02/2019] à 20:19

Hmmm… with all the add-on rules that have been developed over the life of HoN, perhaps a way to handle open-topped vehicles might be a good idea.


How is it handled in Frontier?


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [12/02/2019] à 21:10

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [12/02/2019] à 20:19

Hmmm… with all the add-on rules that have been developed over the life of HoN, perhaps a way to handle open-topped vehicles might be a good idea.


How is it handled in Frontier?



To be honest, one of the things I loved about HoN was that is was rules light when compared to many other "Wargames". I do not want, nor need the game to be a simulation of real life. I am ok that once in a while the game and real life are not in lock step.


Thus I really want to see restraint in adding too many new rules to the game. Adjust the game to keep it balanced and fun, but I would not worry too much about the fact I can't target the LT in a Jeep.


Of course that is just my opinion, other will obviously disagree. 😀


Member of the « Cult of the Inexisting New » – Thanks bartdevuyst

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [12/02/2019] à 22:45

Thus I really want to see restraint in adding too many new rules to the game. Adjust the game to keep it balanced and fun, but I would not worry too much about the fact I can't target the LT in a Jeep.


I agree on this one. Don't make to much rules. Its a great game, like it is now.


Zijn er ook nerderlandse spelers onder ons? Omgeving nijmegen, uden, enz.

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [12/02/2019] à 23:23

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [12/02/2019] à 20:19

How is it handled in Frontier?


IN FRONTIERS; Since snipers can only target infantry the OT rule allowed snipers to fire at vehicles designated as Open Topped.


I agree, the jeep is a very killable vehicle.


In our game I was able to move the Lt in the Jeep up behind line of sight blocking terrain, play the "Ready" card, and move it another 7 squares in the supply phase. I knew next turn I had initiative, so I moved it as my first order another 7 squares to the unguarded objective, 21 squares in total in a row! There wasn't much he could do to stop me here. Then I kept my Lt. in the Jeep because I was holding "It bounced right off"! and "Thank the Helmet" in case the Jeep did get destroyed. As expected he shot the Jeep and would have destroyed it. I played my card. Then he wanted to just target the Lt. so I couldn't move him into the building during the supply phase.


I agree with him it was kind of cheesy. My Lt. was just chillin' in the Jeep eating an apple while the germans were moving in and shooting at the Jeep and couldn't hurt the passenger at all.

His mistake was leaving the objective unguarded though.


This brings up another question. Had he destroyed the Jeep, I would get to place the Lt. adjacent to it.

Could I place the Lt. in a building, since I was right next to the door when the Jeep blew up? For reference, see the center bottom of pic.



Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 03:57

Quote from donnie on [12/02/2019] à 23:23

In our game I was able to move the Lt in the Jeep up behind line of sight blocking terrain, play the "Ready" card, and move it another 7 squares in the supply phase. I knew next turn I had initiative, so I moved it as my first order another 7 squares to the unguarded objective, 21 squares in total in a row! There wasn't much he could do to stop me here. Then I kept my Lt. in the Jeep because I was holding "It bounced right off"! and "Thank the Helmet" in case the Jeep did get destroyed. As expected he shot the Jeep and would have destroyed it. I played my card. Then he wanted to just target the Lt. so I couldn't move him into the building during the supply phase.


I agree with him it was kind of cheesy. My Lt. was just chillin' in the Jeep eating an apple while the Germans were moving in and shooting at the Jeep and couldn't hurt the passenger at all.

His mistake was leaving the objective unguarded though.


That is the nature of this game. It is not a simulator, it is a high-energy Hollywood style game. That is why Supply Phase movement exists — to get the forces to close and fight.


As to your Lt. "just chillin'" Ever see the opening sequence from Kelly's Heroes? Kelly drove right through the German lines after grabbing an office to question. Seems like the same kind of thing. War is Chaos, the fact that playing this we have near perfect information on a section of the battlefield is actually a bit unrealistic 😉


It is your opponent's fault for leaving the objective unguarded. I am sure he learned a valuable lesson and will not lose it again 😉 He probably thought there was no way it was in danger because he did not count on a couple of cards or said: "what are the odds?". Well, now he knows 🙂


For those expressing concerns, I am in no way proposing a general rule that people have to use — not my say in any case. This is no different than the weather rules, or the alternate Morale system or anything else like that. Some people are willing to take HoN in the direction of Simulation and for them some additional mechanics would be fine. That does not mean you have to use them, just that they are there if you WANT to use them.


More on the rest of the comment in a follow-on post.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 04:15

Quote from donnie on [12/02/2019] à 23:23

This brings up another question. Had he destroyed the Jeep, I would get to place the Lt. adjacent to it.


You would be able to place your Lt near the wreck, as long as that space is unoccupied. That deployment from the wrecked vehicle is a Forced Move, but it is a Move. So unless the building has a door by the Vehicle (or a window if you managed to save a Surprise card in that miracle hand of yours). But in any case, your Lt will get a Suppressed marker having just dived out of exploding jeep.


If he let the jeep get that close, he gets what he deserves 🙂


Was this the last turn of the game? If not, then the German player can still remove your Lt. You don't get to pick up a primary objective and keep it, so he can still deny you the VP for the objective later in the game.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 04:21

One more post on this subject:


The rules for OT vehicles were more than likely removed by DPG for a reason. They do not meet the kind of gameplay that DPG wants for HSTS games.


The rules are very clear on the targeting of transported infantry:


A unit inside a vehicle cannot be targeted by a Firing Action or affected by an explosion Template or be targeted by an Assault.


So they cannot be shot. Simple as that. Of course, house rules are always an option if you and your opponent disagree. Play how you enjoy playing the game 🙂


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 06:58

Gehehe! I’m getting flash backs to that scenario Donnie! I lost it the same way xD Although my opponent did not have a all those cards. She did i lt from a bit closer by. Never figured she’d rush a jeep through the lines


Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 08:02

I guess this situation is why the game is called Heroes of Normandie!


This is a very risky move (unless it is the last turn of the game).


If it fails, you will lose that lieutenant, and with him 2 orders (from the picture it looks like he has 2 order stars). That is potentially very crippling loss for the US side.


I'll say this is a High risk – High reward type situation.


Just what the game is about!


Edit: And, anyway, this situation happened because of card play. The cards are meant to bring this kind of unpredictability in the game.


What if the german side had Opportunity fire card in hand? He could have ruined the whole Jeep Drive with it. Or a card that allows him to switch the initiative order of one activation? Suddenly the Initiative order, that the lieutenant was counting on would switch and a german unit caould act first. Or the german might have played a card to make the jeep to break down and not move… And so on.


I like it that the cards bring unpredictability to the game. You can never be sure that your plan will work.


Anyway, I think it was a nica plan that used the card play to make something unexpected and it caught the german player off foot.


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 09:00

Like Colhammer said… it all depended on the card combo.


Play the same scenario a thousand times and it would play out differently each and every time.


So, is the Jeep + Lt. overpowered ? Certainly not


Were you very lucky with your cards ? Indeed you were


Did your opponent made a strategic error by not guarding the objective ? Yes, he did.


Made the same mistake in a HoBR scenario and the game was over in 3 turns. Learned from my mistake in another HoBR scenario and managed to hold on to the objective for a full 6 turns (and thus winning the scenario)


Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 11:30

Quote from ddyates on [13/02/2019] à 11:27

My question is, if a vehicle with exposed crew is targeted, does only the vehicle suffer damage?

I understand this is a game.


What do you mean with 'exposed crew'? A unit with the Crew Special Ability?


A unit with the Crew Special Ability cannot be targeted with a Firing Action. In other words, you can only shoot at the vehicle that unit sits in.


☠Heroes System Belgium Represent ☠

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 16:43

He means in a Jeep that has no armor or anything to hide behind. I keep telling him its abstract. Yes men in Jeeps don't have protection, but they are treated just like half-tracks that do have protection. They had to draw a line somewhere.


He REALLY wanted to shoot my Lt. 😆


Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 20:34

Quote from donnie on [13/02/2019] à 16:43

He means in a Jeep that has no armor or anything to hide behind. I keep telling him its abstract. Yes men in Jeeps don't have protection, but they are treated just like half-tracks that do have protection. They had to draw a line somewhere.


He REALLY wanted to shoot my Lt. 😆


What he needs to understand is that if the Lt is a major character in a movie, then it does not matter how many people are shooting at him if he is in the middle of a dramatic action scene. Your opponent has to pull out his own resources to rewrite the action and come up with a way to stop him. Like, say, a guard on a major objective. Just saying 😉


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [13/02/2019] à 20:56

In my current game a german lieutenant was doing a similar stunt, but he was driving in a half-track.


Guess what? The half-track is now a flaming wreck and the lieutenant is in deep trouble. Guess he thought HE was the hero of this movie… 😉


Light vehicles go down easily in this game…


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [17/02/2019] à 20:42

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [13/02/2019] à 04:15

Was this the last turn of the game? If not, then the German player can still remove your Lt. You don't get to pick up a primary objective and keep it, so he can still deny you the VP for the objective later in the game.


Sorry for the late reply. This was Carentan campaign scenario #5. END It says the game ends at the end of turn 8 or as soon as the American player controls this part of the town. Controlling 'this part of the town' I assume is one of the 2 win objectives. Either the orange marker or 2 of the yellow markers.


So yes, normally he would have been able to counter attack and possible shift my Lt. out of the house, in this instance he couldn't.


Open Topped Vehicles posté le [17/02/2019] à 23:34

Quote from donnie on [17/02/2019] à 20:42

So yes, normally he would have been able to counter attack and possible shift my Lt. out of the house, in this instance he couldn't.


If the spot was so critical, he should not have left it unguarded. He made an operational error and got tagged by it. Bet he won't make the same mistake again 😉


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Open Topped Vehicles posté le [18/03/2019] à 22:03

Sounds like a lot of interesting tactics being posted here!


The creative use of cards to get the most out of your key units is a basic part of the game system. If a player figures out how to get above normal movement from a unit by using their cards to their advantage,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that is one of the neat features in the game.


More Hollywood that a strict war game.


I am with many of the other posters in their comments that the game is great as is, I would hate to see a lot of changes to make it more 'realistic'


My two cents worth,,,,,,,,,,


Pages : 1