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Why squares?
Why squares? posté le [24/02/2019] à 16:48

This may have been a question answered with HoN, but why squares? It seems hexes would have been better.


Why squares? posté le [24/02/2019] à 19:04

Quote from TOW2marine on [24/02/2019] à 16:48

It seems hexes would have been better.


Why are hexes better ?


To me both choices have pros and cons.


Why squares? posté le [24/02/2019] à 20:05

I find I like Hexes for larger scale maps. For example when I play RPGs I like my cross country maps to be hexes and have each hex be one day or two days travel.


But with this game, I think squares made it have a nice feel. I also agree with Eclo, each has some pros and cons.


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Why squares? posté le [24/02/2019] à 23:42

I am not fond of the moving diagonally where a unit is not actually moving through a set space. With hexes, a unit moves from one hex to another. Facing and arcs are easier to determine with hexes.


Why squares? posté le [25/02/2019] à 05:40

Quote from TOW2marine on [24/02/2019] à 23:42

Facing and arcs are easier to determine with hexes.


Having played Fantasy Trip for years we will just have to agree to disagree. Hexes cause facing issues quite often in skirmish level games.


In the end, I do know that hexes can be quite useful in some cases but I am also not sold on them being the best for everything. I am glad they went with squares.


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Why squares? posté le [25/02/2019] à 07:54

I haven't run into any problems with the game using squares instead of hexes.


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Why squares? posté le [25/02/2019] à 19:32

Hexes are more accurate when it comes to representing distances. On squarre grids, a diagonale move worth more distance than orthogonal move, wich may be disturbing for wargames where movements and ranges are involved. The choice with the heroes system was to have something rather simple. And squarres are clearly easier to use than hexes.


Sweat saves blood, blood saves lives, but brains saves both. Erwin Rommel

Why squares? posté le [25/02/2019] à 21:13

This is going to be a bit hard to express, but let me see if I can get my view across.


The Heroes System Tactical Scale system is not primarily a simulator. Although they do try to stay accurate from a "high-level view" this game is supposed to be "WW2 as it was in the golden age of movies". It is more about fun and frantic action than simulation. As such, accurate distance and ranges are less of a priority than accessibility to players.


After all, there are recruitment tiles in this game that are based on the creation of Hollywood writers rather than actual historical units. Steiner, Miller's Rangers, and even Easy Company (although the show was based more or less on real people the HoN version is based on characters from the show).


So if you can embrace the action movie style and enjoy the heroic moments that pop up, you will enjoy this game a lot.


If you are looking for accuracy in simulation, then I would suggest you look more to a standard wargame rather than the HSTS systems. I hear ASL is a detailed simulator 😈


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Why squares? posté le [25/02/2019] à 21:56

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [25/02/2019] à 21:13


If you are looking for accuracy in simulation, then I would suggest you look more to a standard wargame rather than the HSTS systems. I hear ASL is a detailed simulator



As a former ASL player I find a lot of the complexity of ASL does not make it a better simulation. As an example, the suppression system in HSTS takes in to account levels of suppression, where ASL has troops ready to fight or "broken" and completely unable to offer an resistance. A suppressed unit in HSTS may still survive or even win an assault from an enemy. I find this a bit more realistic than having a "broken" unit lose without exception.


There are several other areas in ASL that used to perplex me.


I mostly play solo and will invariably introduce some Squad Leader rules in to my HSTS games at some point. But I like the squares and the abstraction in certain areas that still gives the feel of a good combat game without the dreaded artillery flow chart………….


Hex are what I am most used to, but I find the scale of HSTS works better with squares so that the areas can match the buildings. There are few hexagon shaped buildings on battlefields and the ASL walls and hedges zig-zagging to comform to the hexes looked odd.


Squares seem to work fine.


Why squares? posté le [26/02/2019] à 05:15

Personally I wish they would’ve stayed with round pog like units as in Frontiers and didn’t use a grid at all. Yes this means you need a tape measure, but since I play several war games that isn’t a problem.


Why squares? posté le [26/02/2019] à 05:36

Quote from donnie on [26/02/2019] à 05:15

Personally I wish they would’ve stayed with round pog like units as in Frontiers and didn’t use a grid at all. Yes this means you need a tape measure, but since I play several war games that isn’t a problem.


That would have pushed the game more into the mini-wargame realm. By adding the Grid it helped keep it more of a board game. Just my opinion of course. 😀


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Why squares? posté le [26/02/2019] à 07:47

No grid would mean no terrain effects printed on the map.


I find the terrain area boundaries and the effect symbols printed on the maps the best thing I like about the Heroes System. The maps are clear and you can see what effect the terrain has printed right into the maps.


The area boundary colors make it easy to see which kind of terrain each square has. I remember the rules of other games like "if the woods cover the center dot, then it it a forest hex". There were always some hexes what left you wondering…


And as kenofyork said, the hex grid forces the buildings, hedges and other terrain into unnatural shapes when they need to follow the hexes.

I prefer the squares in this game.


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Why squares? posté le [26/02/2019] à 09:10

Thanks Colhammer, dafrca, and kenofyork for a lot of great points.


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Why squares? posté le [26/02/2019] à 22:50

Quote from Colhammer on [26/02/2019] à 07:47

No grid would mean no terrain effects printed on the map.


I find the terrain area boundaries and the effect symbols printed on the maps the best thing I like about the Heroes System. The maps are clear and you can see what effect the terrain has printed right into the maps.


The area boundary colors make it easy to see which kind of terrain each square has. I remember the rules of other games like "if the woods cover the center dot, then it it a forest hex". There were always some hexes what left you wondering…


Ah, but the way they did it in Frontiers (I realize I’m starting to sound like a broken record, but it was a great game) was free standing terrain tiles that had the bonuses and penalties on it. So win, win!


Why squares? posté le [27/02/2019] à 03:36

Well, apparently Yann and Clem did not agree since they did not carry that style forward to HSTS games. I do not know why, but I am sure they had their reasons.


It is not like they had to answer to a publisher on this one, they got to do what they wanted, and they wanted the terrain boards.


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Why squares? posté le [27/02/2019] à 08:03

Well, I for one, am glad DPG "perfected" the game system by adding the grids to the maps.


I much rather count the squares for movement/range than whip out the measure tape…


I quit playing the miniature games (i.e. measuring the distance with a tape on maps made of terrain pieces) and moved to the board games (counting squares/hexes on printed maps) and I don't really want to go back to using the measuring tape.


To me, the Heroes system is a perfect blend of boardgaming and miniatures gaming.


P.S. I did own the Frontiers game at some point, but I never got to actually playing it. I guess the need to use measuring tape on a thin paper maps felt odd to me.


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

Why squares? posté le [27/02/2019] à 17:43

Quote from Colhammer on [27/02/2019] à 08:03

Well, I for one, am glad DPG "perfected" the game system by adding the grids to the maps.


I much rather count the squares for movement/range than whip out the measure tape…


I also played a number of miniatures games over the years, and I like the HSTS grid better as well. This is, perhaps, not a surprise since I am such a fan I became the moderator on the English forums 😉


From my experience, turns in HSTS go faster since counting squares is simpler than measuring movement and there is less "drift" of moving units or bumped terrain.


Placing terrain on a table does allow for a more infinite variety of battlefields. I have enough terrain boards from HSTS that it is not much of a problem for me, but that is not everyone. Just picking up Carentan or St. Mere Eglise broadens the terrain a lot, but even a full collection is not as good as just placing stuff on the table.


But I am willing to trade the infinite battlefields in for ease of setup and take down.


I have not completely abandoned my mini-games history…I use my LoS laser from my miniatures gaming for LoS checks in HSTS but that is about all that is left from my days of pushing miniatures around a table. Well except that I still use the table I built to play minis games for board gaming 🙂


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Why squares? posté le [31/03/2019] à 17:08

I am also playing the "king" of tactical WW2 games which is IMO ASL. But I agree its not because ASL is so realistic but because it has a great and deep rulesystem. But this comes with a cost. Its a absolute beast in complexity.


But the Hero of System from DPG is a light and very enjoyable fast game for in between without much thinking and rule study. And playing on squares suits very well to this beer-and-pretzel approach. Both games are not portraying tactical combat in a realistic way, so it depends on the mood which I play today. Both have their place in the tactical universe.


Why squares? posté le [31/03/2019] à 19:15

Yep, ASL lost me because it was just so darn complex and the "rule book" was a full 3 ring binder and I didn't even have everything. I loved the idea of it though so I did try for a while. I have a couple of people I know who love it. I didn't the it, just didn't have the time to develop a real understanding of it so I just had to give it up. 🙁


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Why squares? posté le [01/04/2019] à 12:40

Quote from dafrca on [31/03/2019] à 19:15

Yep, ASL lost me because it was just so darn complex and the "rule book" was a full 3 ring binder and I didn't even have everything. I loved the idea of it though so I did try for a while. I have a couple of people I know who love it. I didn't the it, just didn't have the time to develop a real understanding of it so I just had to give it up. 🙁


Yep, its difficult to get into. especially if you have another life too. I dont think there are alot games on this planet which are so complex. (maybe World in Flames or A World at War, 3rd printing?)


I know people who only play ASL as their main game an sacrificing most of their free time to it. For them its more a style of living and not just a game. And often not even these people know all ASL ringbinder rules. 🙂


Recently I preferred the more simple version of ASL which is ASL-Starter Kit 1-3. But beware, while it is labelled as "simple" it is still quite involving and 2 levels above the simplicity of "square" based HoN.


A good ASL like game is the free of cost (do it yourself) Valor&Victory. Its much simpler and faster but, similar in game style and counters art as ASL.


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