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Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury
Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 02:07

I am confused about the assault. Compendium rules book.


Pg. 16. Top left "+1" Grants a +1 bonus during an assault, both when attacking and defending.


Pg. 16. Fuhrer's Fury (German): All units gain the Assault +2 ability (not a +2 bonus to the assault roll).


Pg. 44 Top left assault icons – one knife icon and one knife with +2.


Pg. 44 does not explain what +2 means next to the knife icon.


1. What is the difference between a bonus and an ability in this case? A bonus means that I add that number to my die roll. Does +2 ability mean that a unit can assault two different targets or the same target twice? Reading HoS rules there is a description indicating that "Any number next to the icon is added as an Assault combat bonus." So my best guess is that Fuhrer's Fury action card adds +2 to the attack bonus icon (against infantry or vehicles) of a unit rather than to the die result?


2. If the assaulting unit is inside a building next to a door and is assaulting a unit that is outside of the building next to the door, does the assaulting unit get a defence bonus from the building?


3. Heroes of Normandie Compendium Book indicates that


"A concealed unit cannot be engaged in an assault. Instead, if it is the target of an assault, it is turned over."


Heroes of Stalingrad indicates:


    – A concealed unit that is involved in an Assault is flipped onto its Inactive Side as the Assault begins.

    – A concealed unit must first turn over onto its Inactive Side if it wants to engage another unit in Assault.

So in HoN a unit is turned over and that is it but in HoS a unit is turned over to its inactive side and is then assaulted?


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 06:52

Quote from slyfox on [22/03/2019] à 02:07

3. Heroes of Normandie Compendium Book indicates that


"A concealed unit cannot be engaged in an assault. Instead, if it is the target of an assault, it is turned over."


Heroes of Stalingrad indicates:


    – A concealed unit that is involved in an Assault is flipped onto its Inactive Side as the Assault begins.

    – A concealed unit must first turn over onto its Inactive Side if it wants to engage another unit in Assault.

So in HoN a unit is turned over and that is it but in HoS a unit is turned over to its inactive side and is then assaulted?


No, it is the same in both HoN and HoS, HoS is just a bit more clarified.


A unit that is on its concealed side cannot declare an assault nor engage in one. It must be flipped over onto its unconcealed side. That is what is meant by "cannot engage in an assault", it must flip over before it can start an assault.


If your unit wishes to assault a concealed unit, it declares the assault and initiates the move. As soon as you get close enough you reveal the target unit and then you fight it.


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Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 07:11

Quote from slyfox on [22/03/2019] à 02:07

I am confused about the assault. Compendium rules book.


Pg. 16. Top left "+1" Grants a +1 bonus during an assault, both when attacking and defending.


Pg. 16. Fuhrer's Fury (German): All units gain the Assault +2 ability (not a +2 bonus to the assault roll).


Pg. 44 Top left assault icons – one knife icon and one knife with +2.


Pg. 44 does not explain what +2 means next to the knife icon.


1. What is the difference between a bonus and an ability in this case? A bonus means that I add that number to my die roll. Does +2 ability mean that a unit can assault two different targets or the same target twice? Reading HoS rules there is a description indicating that "Any number next to the icon is added as an Assault combat bonus." So my best guess is that Fuhrer's Fury action card adds +2 to the attack bonus icon (against infantry or vehicles) of a unit rather than to the die result?


Think of icons in HSTS games as a symbol language like Chinese or Hieroglyphics. Think of the <knife> as the Assault word — any number superimposed over it is the relative strength of the verb.


If a unit has just the Assault symbol on it, then it can declare an Assault.


If the symbol is an Assault knife with the +X superimposed over it, then it is the <Assault +X> ability, meaning it not only grants the unit the ability to declare an Assault but also provides a bonus of <+X> to any die rolls related to Assault the unit makes. This ability does not stack with any other <Assault +X> ability, you simply use the most powerful <Assault +X> the unit currently possess.


Anything that "Grants the Unit an Assault +2 ability" would give that unit the equivalent ability as if they had the <Assault +2> ability. If that unit already has an <Assault +3> ability, then the benefit of "Fury of the Fuhrer" would not help them.


In the case of the card bonus, known as the "Alternate Bonus", it does just what the text says it does. You can play the card to grant you a bonus to your die roll in an assault, whether as attacker or defender. That works whether you have the Assault ability or not. That is why it is a bonus value beside the Assault verb and not superimposed over it.


So even if your Recon team does not normally have the Assault ability, but is Assaulted by an enemy unit who does, you can play the card to give your poor Recon team a +1 to their roll, because you can use that bonus in an Assault.


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Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 07:12

Quote from slyfox on [22/03/2019] à 02:07

2. If the assaulting unit is inside a building next to a door and is assaulting a unit that is outside of the building next to the door, does the assaulting unit get a defence bonus from the building?


That one is answered on p. 44 of the Compendium, at the bottom of the left-hand column.

"Until the assault is resolved, the attacking unit is considered as being in the square from which it launched the assault."


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Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 13:16

Nostradunwhich thank you for your detailed answers but unfortunately, but it is still not clear to me.


If your unit wishes to assault a concealed unit, it declares the assault and initiates the move. As soon as you get close enough you reveal the target unit and then you fight it.


A concealed unit is three spaces away from an assaulting unit.


An assault is declared and the assaulting unit moves in two spaces. What happens then, the concealed unit is just flipped and the action is over or the concealed unit is flipped and the assault beings. This is what I am confused about.


In HoN, the rule is "A concealed unit cannot be engaged in an assault. Instead, if it is the target of an assault, it is turned over." Does this mean that the concealed unit is flipped to its inactive side and the movement + assault action is over?


In HoS, the rule is "A concealed unit that is involved in an Assault is flipped onto its Inactive Side as the Assault begins." Does this mean that the concealed unit is flipped to ins inactive side and the assault takes place?


If the symbol is an Assault knife with the +X superimposed over it, then it is the <Assault +X> ability, meaning it not only grants the unit the ability to declare an Assault but also provides a bonus of <+X> to any die rolls related to Assault the unit makes. This ability does not stack with any other <Assault +X> ability, you simply use the most powerful <Assault +X> the unit currently possess.


Again, this is not clear.


Pg. 16. Fuhrer's Fury (German): All units gain the Assault +2 ability (not a +2 bonus to the assault roll).


I did more thinking about this and here is what I figured. This card gives +2 ability, which means that this ability is added towards the attacking bonus. So if an infantry unit has a +3 bonus against other infantry units, the assault attack bonus becomes 3 (built in) + 2 from the card.


What difference does makes if +2 ability and +2 bonus both add a +2? It makes a difference.


attack bonus + 2 ability vs die roll + 2 bonus.


A unit with a +3 infantry attack makes an assault and rolls a 1. The total assault number is 3+1+2(bonus from the card)=5.


However, if the same unit is suppressed and makes an assault here is how it plays out:


3+1+2(bonus from the card) -2 (suppressed maker) = 3


Now, if we play Fuhrer's Fury they way it is written, here is what happens:


3 (built in) + 2 (card ability bonus) + 1 (die roll) – 2 (from die roll from suppressed marker) = 5.


Suppression subtracts from the die roll and not from the ability.


Thus, Fuhrer's Fury adds +2 to the ability and not to the die roll bonus.


That one is answered on p. 44 of the Compendium, at the bottom of the left-hand column.


"Until the assault is resolved, the attacking unit is considered as being in the square from which it launched the assault."


Yes, so that would mean that the unit would benefit from a terrain bonus or a house bonus that it is attacking from if the unit that is being attack is right next to the element or house?


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 19:18

The various "levels" of Assault (+1, +2, etc.) grants your unit:

a) The ability to Initiate an Assault of its own accord

b) A bonus to the die roll for ANY sssault roll as indicated by the number shown on the Assault ability. That bonus will apply in both attack and defense during an assault.


There are two examples of these "levels" of Assault shown in the Compendium on p. 44 just under the heading for "Assault". They are the <Assault> base level and the <Assault +2> level of the Assault ability. In the latter case, the <Assault +2> level grants a +2 bonus to the die roll used to resolve an assault.


IMPORTANT NOTE: Levels of Assault do not combine. If a unit has <Assault +1> and something in the game grants them <Assault +2>, that supersedes the <Assault +1> power. The unit will add only +2 to Assault rolls, not +3.


"Fury of the Fuhrer" grants a unit the temporary Special Ability Assault at the level of <Assault +2>. It does not grant just a simple bonus to sssault like the Alternate Bonus grants. That is mainly relevant to situations where the unit might possess some enhanced level of Assault already. That is why it is not a flat +2 bonus to all assaults.


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Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 19:28

As to how an Assault resolves, that is covered in detail in the Compendium under "Resolving the Assault".


There is a nice picture that shows the general mechanics. However, the illustration shows only two units with the base <Assault> ability, not the more powerful levels of that ability.


The higher levels of the Assault ability would have that bonus included in the "other available bonuses (special abilities, actions cards, recruitment options, etc.)". That collection of bonuses applies as appropriate to both Attacker and Defender.


So to go back to the illustration on p. 44 of the Compendium, if the German Unit in the picture had been under the effects of a "Fury of the Fuhrer" card when the assault happened, then his total would have been 9 rather than 7, but he still would have lost the assault.


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Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 19:48

Quote from slyfox on [22/03/2019] à 13:16

A unit with a +3 infantry attack makes an assault and rolls a 1. The total assault number is 3+1+2(bonus from the card)=5.


3+1+2=6


3+1+2(bonus from the card) -2 (suppressed maker) = 3


6-2=4


3 (built in) + 2 (card ability bonus) + 1 (die roll) – 2 (from die roll from suppressed marker) = 5.


6-2=4


Suppression subtracts from the die roll and not from the ability.


See p. 43 "Penalties Related to Suppressed Markers" for a full description of the effects of Suppression. Suppression is never subtracted from a unit's combat value.


Related note to Suppressive Fire: Please ensure you use the chart on p. 144 showing how to calculate a Firing result when calculating Suppressive Fire to ensure you correctly deal with any bonuses or penalties a unit may be experiencing when attempting Suppressive Fire.


Yes, so that would mean that the unit would benefit from a terrain bonus or a house bonus that it is attacking from if the unit that is being attack is right next to the element or house?


Attackers do not get a bonus from terrain. Assault rules, p. 44


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Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 22:07

Thank you Nostradunwhich. I think it is clear now.


LOL 😀 My math was off 🙂


To sum up:


1. +2 assault ability adds a +2 to whatever the unit's attack bonus is.


2. Fuhrer's Fury cards enables units without an assault to perform an assault with a +2 ability.


3. A concealed unit can be assault by another unit. The assault on a concealed unit is performed as usual but the concealed unit is first flipped to its inactive side.


Refer to [v2.0] Compendium Clarifications https://www.devil-pig-games.com/en/forum/?action=viewtopic&t=10251.#postid-62265


❗ Ambush (p. 39): A concealed unit *can* be the target of an assault, and if assaulted is turned over to its Inactive side. The original line was supposed to indicate you do not use the Active side of the token while fighting an Ambush.


4. When perfuming an assault, only the defender benefits from the terrain element or structure bonus.


Happy HoN player in Toronto.

Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 22:20

Nice synopsis. Especially the ‘perfuming’ part. :mrgreen:


☠Heroes System Belgium Represent ☠

Assault Ability vs Bonus Clarification - Führer's Fury posté le [22/03/2019] à 22:42

Quote from slyfox on [22/03/2019] à 22:07

2. Fuhrer's Fury cards enables units without an assault to perform an assault with a +2 ability.


You are getting it, you just missed one thing.


Fuhrer's Fury grants ANY unit Assault +2.


If the unit does not have Assault, it gains Assault +2 and adds 2 to any assault result for the turn.

If the unit has Assault, it gains Assault +2 and adds 2 to any assault result for the turn.

If the unit has Assault +1, it gains Assault +2 and adds 2 to any assault result for the turn instead of its usual +1

If the unit has Assault +2, it does not gain Assault +2 as it already has it and, yes, it adds 2 to any assault result.

If the unit has Assault +3, it does not gain Assault +2 as it already has a better Assault ability. It adds 3 to any assault result, because that is what Assault +3 does 😉


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