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Spells - can anyone explain the rule
Spells - can anyone explain the rule posté le [14/11/2015] à 00:30

The whole SoN Spell/ Search rules are a mess , I do not mean individual spells they are all detailed but how you gain and use them. If you draw one from the search bag it is then placed on any empty tile with a white or green border…. then what. How do characters gain them other than pre game customisations. The rules do not cover picking them up from the tile , any action or movement point costs or restrictions although I think only characters can use them.


page 8 The magician + range rule reduces suppression to all other magicians but it cannot stack, how does that even make sense. Unless it is a misprint and it gives it to all other characters.


For Spells are Heros and officers classed as characters or put another way are all single men(woman) counters all characters.


I find this quite frustrating and time consuming unravelling the rules. The same for Hon and in the end the rules were not that difficult just thetransalation doesnt quite work. Even after all the effort for hon and agreed clarifications they still left some of the wording in the SoN rule book , WHY?


Spells - can anyone explain the rule posté le [14/11/2015] à 10:02

NOSTRADUNWHICH PM on BGG enlightened me.


It appears the tiles are recruitment tiles , I was thinking something else.


The green or white borders through me because I was looking for full borders not just two centred lines either side of the recruitment options about half height in length. The green borders on the terrain tile spaces distracted me.


Not the first time DPG have missed a word from the rules that would help clarify things. LOS to target units in buildings etc..


The ranged Magician is only on totems at the moment , I had not examined every component so it gives magicians a benefit within range. I was thinking it was on characters.


Spells - can anyone explain the rule posté le [14/11/2015] à 18:58

Quote from starman on [14/11/2015] à 00:30

The whole SoN Spell/ Search rules are a mess , I do not mean individual spells they are all detailed but how you gain and use them. If you draw one from the search bag it is then placed on any empty tile with a white or green border…. then what. How do characters gain them other than pre-game customizations. The rules do not cover picking them up from the tile , any action or movement point costs or restrictions although I think only characters can use them.


For the sake of new players coming here for help. I am going to go through this rules section by paragraph.


At the beginning of each game, take all customizations and spells with one of these backs that are not assigned to recruitment tiles and put them in the little bag (Search bag)

I added emphasis to a key point. The tokens in the search bag are all customizations, which tokens are normally assigned to recruitment tiles. That is the mechanic for adding those pieces to your game.


A unit that ends up in a space with a Search token, or in a space adjacent to a Search token, can make a Search check.

It must have an Order token and make the check instead of taking an action during the Activation or Supply Phase.

This one is how you acquire one of these Customizations. You move within range, make the check, and if you succeed you pull a Customization and can add it to your army. There is nothing here about placing the drawn token onto the board or any other step, so there is no need for rules about taking a different action to pick the item up. You took the action to pick the item up.


I will skip the rules on rolls (for now) and get to the next point of contention.


Once the customization/spell is drawn, you can assign it to any tile that has an empty space bordered by a white or green band

I have added emphasis again. Once you have drawn the tile you assign it to a recruitment tile. That is what you do with these tokens, as mentioned in the top of this section. That is the standard mechanic for how these tokens are assigned to units. This means that only characters with available slots can make use of your newly found item.


No guidance is given as to what to do if you don't have an empty slot. You cannot assign the token, so from my point of view that means you cannot use the item in your army. Would be nice if there was some definitive rules on whether you could swap the new customization for a previously assigned one, but for now you cannot.


As for the color codes, the Customization you drew should have just such a green or white band on its border, so find a matching empty space in a recruitment tile. That is the standard rules for assigning such tokens to units — the color bands have to match.


However, that rule would certainly have been clearer if it was written so you "assign it to any recruitment tile" or even "assign it to any Hero", since those are (at least currently) the only recruitment tiles with such spaces on them. However, DPG may have been avoiding that wording specifically, so stick with "recruitment tile".


One of the changes that can lead to some confusion is that the actual mechanics for building an army (which these rules draw upon) are not actually in the Rule book — they are in the Campaign book. I cannot say I support this move as it not only means you need more than one book to find the rules you need (a pet peeve of mine), but it also implies that the army creation rules are tied to the Lost Legion campaign. Now perhaps this is actually the case, and later books may use different rules. But for now it seems like it is not the best organization.


Quote from starman on [14/11/2015] à 00:30

For Spells are Heroes and officers classed as characters or put another way are all single men(woman) counters all characters.


Characters are defined on page 4 of the rules. It is in bold near the bottom of the left-hand column.


A Character is the primary counter of a recruitment tile (and not an Option). It can be a hero or the officer (yellow outline) of a recruitment tile.

Unfortunately, the definition of "primary" is not clear. There are examples shown, but the text can be misinterpreted to indicate that every officer is automatically a character, and I believe that is not the case. Based on earlier conversations with DPG, characters are the tokens whose portrait appears on the recruitment tile. That matches all the examples shown but I need to get confirmation.


The Top of the right-hand column of the same page defines a Hero.


Heroes are not recruitment options and therefore do not need to be associated with recruitment tiles but some of them cannot be enlisted without the proper recruitment tile. They are the only units whose names appear on their recruitment tiles.

Emphasis added again. There are examples shown of Heroes, but they key is the name.


Your definition is pretty close to correct, although Vandy from St-Mere Eglise is still a Hero even though his token has more than one person on it.


In HoN, there are some "Heroic Platoons" that have an character (portrait on the recruitment tile) whose name also appears on the tile and thus they have an officer who is a Hero. And yes, for those who spotted it, using these definitions there are a whole lot more Heroes in Heroes of Normandy than it first appeared 🙂 Steiner, Miller, Wittmann, Bastien, Lord Lovat, etc.


To get to your point, however, only a Character (Hero or otherwise) that has an open slot can take advantage of your new-found treasure.


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Spells - can anyone explain the rule posté le [15/11/2015] à 12:59

Can i just check,


In order to search for a spell, the indicated text from the rule book says you need to be on the space or adjacent to the space with the search token.


The unit needs to have an order token


You cannot take any other action during the activation or supply phase.


In your comments you say you can walk up to the space and then make the check. Isnt that at odds with not being able to take any other action if you search, as move is an action. So rules as written it would take two turns to search, one to move and one to search.


That feels expensive.


I feel that it should be " if you end your move on or adjacent to a search token you can search, if you do search you cannot have taken any previous actions as part of your move or any further actions during the activation or supply phase."


In order to search………


Is that correct?


Spells - can anyone explain the rule posté le [15/11/2015] à 14:09

Quote from decaramas on [15/11/2015] à 12:59

That feels expensive.


I feel that it should be " if you end your move on or adjacent to a search token you can search, if you do search you cannot have taken any previous actions as part of your move or any further actions during the activation or supply phase."


In order to search………


Is that correct?


This is not picking up an objective, this is adding a Special Ability to your forces for 0 points. As such it is more expensive than just picking something up. If it helps thing of it as spending your action digging through the junk in a hut, or digging up the ground or overturning rocks or whatever in order to find a hidden object.


As for the action being "expensive", it only costs a single Order if you do it right. In a previous Supply Phase you move an unactivated unit up to the Search token and then on the next turn you can assign an action token to that unit to search. As such you have to spend a grand total of 1 Order to gain a customization worth up to 15 pts (at least, in the base box). So now you have up to a 15pt advantage on your opponent.


Granted, it could be a 5pt customization, that is the chance you take 🙂 However, Search is as expensive as having to spend a movement action flipping a machine gun to its tripod side so you can gain access to Machine Gunner, Suppressive Fire, and a bigger combat bonus. In either case you can spend 2 Orders to get the objective accomplished or you can spend 1 if you do it right 🙂


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Spells - can anyone explain the rule posté le [15/11/2015] à 21:13

Got it i forgot about moving in the supply phase ( which is wierd as i love that rule) makes perfect sense now.


I am really looking forward to the new KS and hope it solves some of the localisation issues. The rules are good and for the most part simple but the localisation has caused some issues. As some one who has worked in video games for 20 years i know how this can be an issue if not managed properly.


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